Daggers! Legal! What?

[craytab]

Kraton handles are great, but few are made currently, except one low-cost Chinese-made "Desert Dagger" clone by SOG, and that steel is warp prone, and likely poorly tempered (Chinese-made SOG stuff is to be avoided)...

The original seki-made SOG Desert Dagger is widely available second-hand, and is another good example, if not that sharp, but is way overpriced compared to most discontinued Seki daggers, maybe due to its appearance in Kill Bill... Most of those have the plastic or kydex sheath, and I don't trust those to keep the finish or edge damage free...

Gaston

This information from Gaston444 is not accurate at all and should be completely ignored as it is inaccurate and wrong. The Dagger line from SOG stemmed from the Seki Dessert Dagger which was used in Kill Bill. This knife is an excellent full sized dagger and is highly collectable. The Daggert series has two knives that are made in Taiwan, not China, and are still very good and can be had for a reasonable price. I would consider them a one time use defensive weapon. I have the larger Daggart II under my pillow as a last resort defense tool.

Consider where you get information and the knives in question.

 

[craytab]

Yet another vote for the sog pentagon.mines made in taiwan. but ive carried it for years.

Both would likely be good for their intended purpose. I prefer the seki.

 

[stonproject]

Too big! The IIs are over six inches. The Mark 1s appear to be rare and expensive, and come with leather sheaths.

Best options so far:

Counter Tac 1 or 2 (both work!)
Benchmade SOCP
Boker Applegate II

With my current budget, I could get the Applegate and one of the other two! Definitely still looking for more options and looking around for that mystical unknown perfect knife (as always).

I have a friend in town who does amazing kydex concealment rigs if you get a blade with a leather sheath. He even does carbon fiber laminate sheaths. I can send pics if you want, email me if interested cashew.special@gmail.com

 

[Gaston444]

This information from Gaston444 is not accurate at all and should be completely ignored as it is inaccurate and wrong. The Dagger line from SOG stemmed from the Seki Dessert Dagger which was used in Kill Bill. This knife is an excellent full sized dagger and is highly collectable. The Daggert series has two knives that are made in Taiwan, not China, and are still very good and can be had for a reasonable price. I would consider them a one time use defensive weapon. I have the larger Daggart II under my pillow as a last resort defense tool.

Consider where you get information and the knives in question.

Sure do...

This is what I said:

Quote Originally Posted by Gaston444:

Kraton handles are great, but few are made currently, except one low-cost Chinese-made "Desert Dagger" clone by SOG, and that steel is warp prone, and likely poorly tempered (Chinese-made SOG stuff is to be avoided)...

The original seki-made SOG Desert Dagger is widely available second-hand, and is another good example, if not that sharp, but is way overpriced compared to most discontinued Seki daggers, maybe due to its appearance in Kill Bill... Most of those have the plastic or kydex sheath, and I don't trust those to keep the finish or edge damage free...

Gaston
-------------------------------------------------------------

I may have been wrong about the Chinese origin, but everything you see in bold is completely accurate.

As to the value of these, here are the prices on the Daggerts and Fixation daggers, both on Amazon (it looks like I was intending to refer to the "Fixation dagger", a true copy of the Desert Dagger, which I misnamed for the more expensive "Daggert", which could be better made, although at such prices, and given the way the SOG is willing to roll in the mud with crap untempered steels, do you really want to bet on this?):

Amazon listing:
SOG Specialty Knives & Tools FX10N-CP Fixation Dagger Knife with Dual Serrated and Straight Edge Fixed 6.68-Inch Blade and Kraton Handle, Black Finish
by SOG Specialty Knives
4.2 out of 5 stars
45 customer reviews
List Price: $52.00
Price: $34.90

The more expensive Daggert 2, unlike what Craytab claims, is not a near-clone of the original "Desert Dagger". It is indeed very different, although the blade is close. The "Fixation dagger" that I misnamed as being the "Daggert" IS a close copy of the "Desert Dagger"...


SOG Daggert 2
Type: Fixed
Blade: 168mm
Lock: N/A
Avg Price: $70.00

For some reason you see those at wildly fluctuating prices, Amazon has them in the $170-220 range, which you should not pay I think for non-Seki-made stuff...

In any case, this is the kind of "cheap range" SOG is willing to stake their reputation on...: I can't seem to link the videos for some reason, but here are the titles:

Sog Fixation Bowie - Test FAIL!!!!! by Tactical
SOG Jungle Warrior BROKEN . . . By Mayor Fuglycool

SOG Fixation Bowie by "ZogThePrimitive": This guy shows how to make a spear with your broken off SOG Fixation Bowie blade!!! How practical-minded...

SOG FX10 dagger: cutting test 2 and Sog FX 10 fixation dagger by notregme: In this one the dagger's tang is bent by one chop! The handle, guard and blade were all misaligned to one another before that...

SOG Fusion Fixation FAIL. by TaintedScarecrow: Another broken "fixation bowie"

Now to be fair I have not found a description of failure for the "Daggert 2", which given the higher price is probably of a different origin. This might mean the "Daggert 2" is better, or it could just mean that above a certain price people will not abuse their knives in a significant way...

I'll put it this way: Now that SOG makes stuff outside of Seki-City, they are willing to put their name on the ridiculous garbage that is pointed out above: Maybe the "Daggert 2" is way better than the cheaper "Fixation Dagger", which I'll admit I mixed up in names, but is a company's reputation not bound to every product they put their name on?

If you want to entrust your lives to this garbage, be my guest, but to me the company has shown its true colors once with its cheaper models, and to argue where SOG chose to have what model made is splitting hairs... Once, one of their cheaper blades (the infamous "Jungle Warrior" above) sent me to the hospital -in an ambulance- for failing to cut a twig, which contemptuously bounced it off point first into my leg...

So look up the videos above, and see if you want to take the same chance I did with this... At least with a Seki-City blade, even if it is a SOG, you know there is a baseline of quality involved...

Gaston

 

[Sosa]

Here's the CT 1. Scary sharp and pointy.

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[Leftytwogunz]

The little Benchmade SOCP dagger is nice. I carried it in a cargo pocket before it got too cold to wear shorts. It really only has one purpose. It is light, and no wasted length. Reasonably priced as well.

 

[ThePeacent]

I'd say CS is the way to go, if you like the designs and such. In the end, half of their products are designed and advertised as Martial Blades. The scariest blade I have is, without a doubt, the OSS.

Sharp as hell, and nimble. Would make a terrific weapon.

The flat grind is weird, but it works on the only one I've tried. Cuts well, but only some times when the impact angle is the proper one. Otherwise it'll slip the target, and make no cut at all.

Now, as a piercer, it is an excellent shape and design. Pointy blade for sure. And that's what daggers are for, right?

I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of that one, and even worse, a twice-as-long Counter Tac.

 

[Comeuppance]

Just made a $55 offer for a BNIB Benchmade SOCP, fingers crossed.

It looks like one could use either their pinkie or index finger and very naturally draw-use-and-re-sheath in either an icepick or hammer grip. While it's clearly designed solely for totally killing dudes, it could be a suitably ridiculously fun EDC knife once there's a full edge on it.

I honestly think the flat-sided nature of the Counter Tacs are going to keep me from getting them, and the Applegate knives are all in a price range well above what I consider worth the material cost. The Schrade SCHF21, however, is something that warrants considering. It's like a Microtech ADO but actually available for sale and at a price where using it isn't a really poor financial decision.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

The socp is really easily drawn with the index finger. It is suitable to carry centerline and can be drawn with either hand. As I said, Slim and light. I think, intended to be stashed on a plate carrier, but in my experience, just as easily clipped into a cargo pocket with a small bit of cord tying the base of the sheath to the button hole to act as a "dummy cord".

I think for it's single intended use it does not really need to be fully sharpened. It should pierce just fine, however, it is quite inexpensive compared to some other daggers out there (winkler, spartan etc.) so I would have no problem doing modifications if I felt they were needed.
Best of luck.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

And damn, if that schrade doesnt look entirely influenced my that MT ADO. I have no love for either company. Not sure what would be needed to stash into a hollow handle on a dagger either. Not like we would ever be carrying a dagger at the same time we need some fishing line, compass or emergency fire starting materials. Well, hope not, at least.

 

[Comeuppance]

The socp is really easily drawn with the index finger. It is suitable to carry centerline and can be drawn with either hand. As I said, Slim and light. I think, intended to be stashed on a plate carrier, but in my experience, just as easily clipped into a cargo pocket with a small bit of cord tying the base of the sheath to the button hole to act as a "dummy cord".

I think for it's single intended use it does not really need to be fully sharpened. It should pierce just fine, however, it is quite inexpensive compared to some other daggers out there (winkler, spartan etc.) so I would have no problem doing modifications if I felt they were needed.
Best of luck.

I plan on throwing a Tek-Lok (I have a spare kicking around somewhere) on there and doing belt-carry if I can't find a comfortable/workable way to carry it using the pocket clip. Aye, if I can get it at the price I've offered, I'll feel very comfortable putting a full edge on the blade.

And damn, if that schrade doesnt look entirely influenced my that MT ADO. I have no love for either company. Not sure what would be needed to stash into a hollow handle on a dagger either. Not like we would ever be carrying a dagger at the same time we need some fishing line, compass or emergency fire starting materials. Well, hope not, at least.

No joke - and I am similarly unbiased towards either company. Given that it's solid carbon steel, I'd put good odds on that hollow handle becoming semi-permanently sealed through rust after carrying it for very long. At that point, it just serves to reduce the weight.

Also, with how slim the handle is, there isn't much you could stash in there. Paracord for an impromptu tourniquet, perhaps? Boot knives are an odd choice for backup storage locations. I guess one could make it a really inconvenient / terrifying way to hide your cash.

"That'll be 22.74"
"Hold on, let me get my cash"
-shink-
"Why are you running away? I'm just getting my cash."

 

[Leftytwogunz]

Yeah, I can see the usability of a stash spot on a "survival" type knife, where you may not have a full pack or lost or forgot something, yet you happen to have your Knife. And survival knives and firestarting, fishing etc. Kind of go together. Daggers, not so much.

 

[craytab]

and to argue where SOG chose to have what model made is splitting hairs...

Of course the person spreading misinformation about where something is made would call it "splitting hairs".

On topic. I've always been interested by the Benchmade dagger. I think they make a single edge version now so I might have to pick one up. Good luck com and let us know how you like it if you get it.

 

[Aias]

Lots of good info here--great read... except one thing--I totally missed where the daggers where legalized. Can anyone clarify please--thanks.

 

[craytab]

Lots of good info here--great read... except one thing--I totally missed where the daggers where legalized. Can anyone clarify please--thanks.

I believe it is in Oklahoma but I wish it was here

 

[Aias]

Agreed Craytab... I thought "OK" was Oklahoma as well, but I want d to be sure... Of course, my hope it was California was hopelessly foolish, but I hoped for a second anyway.

Looks like we're both out of luck for now.

 

[craytab]

I talked with Doug Ritter about this very subject (as well as about autos, damn I want to edc an Auto more than just sitting on my couch). The political climate in PA will likely never allow change. Hell, nothing changes here no matter who the governor is. This is double edged (get it, like a dagger). The gun law we have is fantastic and our knife law isn't restrictive save for autos and daggers. We won't be getting daggers anytime soon but we won't lose what we have either.

About a year ago I was so close to pulling the trigger on that SOCP and dulling the back edge.

 

[Bob Leedy]

Check out the Sentinel Boot Dagger thread currently in the Custom discussion. Looks like it would suit your needs well and probably wouldn't break the bank.

 

[killgar]

Just made a $55 offer for a BNIB Benchmade SOCP, fingers crossed.

It looks like one could use either their pinkie or index finger and very naturally draw-use-and-re-sheath in either an icepick or hammer grip. While it's clearly designed solely for totally killing dudes, it could be a suitably ridiculously fun EDC knife once there's a full edge on it.

I honestly think the flat-sided nature of the Counter Tacs are going to keep me from getting them, and the Applegate knives are all in a price range well above what I consider worth the material cost. The Schrade SCHF21, however, is something that warrants considering. It's like a Microtech ADO but actually available for sale and at a price where using it isn't a really poor financial decision.

I bought one of those Schrade boot knives, and less than 1 minute after taking it out of the box I put it right back in the box and began the return process.

I was really looking forward to the knife, but it had two major issues- it was very small, like a toy, I couldn't get a good grip on it, and I don't have large hands. And the tip wasn't anywhere near as tapered as it appears in the pictures. The end of the blade was more like a pointed spoon. If it wasn't for the tip I might have kept it, but I like my daggers really pointy. Of course it could be that I just got a bad one.

If you're looking for a dagger than can also be used as a decent cutting tool, then the Schrade boot knife isn't it. Between the narrowness of the blade, and the thickness of the edges, in my opinion, and hands-on experience, it's not a good choice for cutting.

 

[killgar]

Agreed Craytab... I thought "OK" was Oklahoma as well, but I want d to be sure... Of course, my hope it was California was hopelessly foolish, but I hoped for a second anyway.

Looks like we're both out of luck for now.

Daggers are not illegal in California. They are not illegal to own or OPENLY carry.

There is a lot of misinformation on the internet regarding the legal status of daggers in California. I know of at least one website which claims to offer explanations of knife laws for all fifty states which erroneously says that daggers are illegal.

The actual California penal code can be found here- http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes.xhtml

That link is to California's official state government website. Unlike some other websites that people just make up and give their own interpretation of the laws, and get them wrong.

To use that link to find California's knife/dagger laws, click on the "Text Search" box, then click the little box next to "Penal Code" (bottom of center column), you can then type any words you want in the search boxes. If you perform a search for "dagger", you will find all of California's laws regarding daggers.

Like I said, they are both legal to own, and legal to carry as long as they are carried OPENLY, just as all fixed-blades must be carried in California.