Dallas Police and Martials Arts - Part 1 of a new series?

SASSAS

SASSAS

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Police Deny Excessive Force In Bloody Arrest
Dramatic Pictures, Rumors Circulate Online

DALLAS -- E-mails and pictures circulating the Internet tell the tale of a Dallas woman's bloody run-in with police after a roller-skating outing escalated into an arrest with excessive force, but officers and some witnesses Monday told a different story.

http://nocon.darkflame.net/dallaspoliceabuse/

There are a couple links on this one...

Danny had posted a couple times on the police in New Orleans and whether martial arts training would have helped lead to a more peaceful resolution. Reactions were mixed. I was wondering what people thought of this...
 
Danny's was a nutflake waving a knife about...this is (and 'scuse me ladys) just a woman,grab'em by the back of the neck and as long as she's not armed you're golden.:D
 
Just being off-balance and on unstable inline skates could cause major face trauma. Hard to tell what happened here.

(And, for the record, I AM NOT a police apologist- there are just too many times police get reamed for the wrong reasons.)

John
 
What John said. I'll wait until all the facts are in before I start shooting my mouth off.

Although I will say for the record that putting a knee across someone's chest while holding their arms (as it appears the officer is doing in one of the pics) is more accurately described as restraining, rather than choking.
 
Dave Rishar said:
What John said. I'll wait until all the facts are in before I start shooting my mouth off.

Although I will say for the record that putting a knee across someone's chest while holding their arms (as it appears the officer is doing in one of the pics) is more accurately described as restraining, rather than choking.
Click to expand...

Curiously enough, My Judo Sensei considered it a choke a few weeks ago when I compressed my opponents chest hard enough to severely restrict his breathing and make him tap, so technically maybe it could be??:confused:

Not that I'm pointing fingers in this case, or saying the media has a clue what they're talking about. I share the perception expressed by Spectre and yourself.
 
I'll tell you what I DO know: The area it happened in, Deep Ellum, is nightclub and bar row in downtown Dallas. It's a mile from three different colleges.
If you guys remember my friend Mayhem, who was killed trying to save his buddies in Damageplan, that's where he worked many nights as a bouncer.
I hated going to deep ellum because of horrible traffic, no parking and drunken fools everywhere. Also, the gangbangers would show up because they thought college kids would be THE people to impress with their gangsterliness.
Gangs dont do so well in Texas, since more good guys and gals and grannies carry guns than in many other places.... I remember seeing the cops bang some kids' heads down on their car hood one night, but 5 seconds later they pulled an SKS with a 40 round magazine out of the back seat. Idiots.

Personally, until I see a good video or read a good article about this, Im going to have to say that this looks like an accident. If she was drunk and skating in traffic, she probably was going to be hurt or killed even without police involved! they may have saved her life.
 
Hi Sassas:

Apprehending a woman can be just as difficult as apprehending a man. I speak from first hand experience. The consequences of not obeying orders from a LEA are not worth it. You threaten a cop with a knife or gun or resist arrest and you deserve what you get. Including death. This country is far to easy on criminals as it is. Women use their gender as an excuse to be treated differently than the same male offender. Yet they want equality in the work world.

My .02 worth.

Thanks, Steve
 
Runs With Scissors said:
Curiously enough, My Judo Sensei considered it a choke a few weeks ago when I compressed my opponents chest hard enough to severely restrict his breathing and make him tap, so technically maybe it could be??:confused:
Click to expand...

Interesting. I could see someone with a large weight advantage compressing someone else's ribs, but I don't think that was his intent. There are less comfortable places that he could have put his knee were he interested in inflicting pain rather than simply maintaining control; a knee against the face also controls and is a hell of a lot more painful, and a knee on the throat speaks for itself.

Just started judo myself recently. Cool stuff, huh?
 
Yup, once again, I think I pretty much agree. There's alot worse places to put a knee if a person has malicious intent in mind.


It doesn't usually happen as a weight advantage for me, as much as a brute force and ignorance advantage. The pinning technique I was using is actually a bit basic and boring....ahem....good ole Kesa Gatame....Just like my eight year old uses. Couldn't help it, it's a very easy translation from some of the techniques I used in Freestyle and Collegiate wrestling.:o

http://judoinfo.com/images/geesink.jpg

http://judoinfo.com/images/osaekomi/hon_kesa_gatame.gif

Judo is has been a blessing and a curse for me. I enjoy it immensely, exercise, competition, fun, activities with my son, some of the greatest people I've met are at the Dojo, competing...competing...competing.....;) It's a pretty nice place for a worn out has-been wrestler to wander into.

It's a bit of a curse in that it can be pretty hard on a body that's already had it's share of previous injuries. I'm currently recovering from an INCREDIBLY stupid stunt that tore some ligaments out of my right shoulder. (missed TWO tournaments so far because of it!):mad: One of these days I'm gonna screw myself up badly enough to not be able to continue being a shovel jockey for a living, but it's kinda like an addiction...I can't seem to quit as long as I can still walk.

It is about the most addictive sport/Martial Art I've come across for sure though.:D

Sorry...didn't mean to drift so far off topic...
 
There was an update on this:

http://www.wfaa.com/s/dws/news/loca...rderby_18met.ART.North.Edition2.1365f1a1.html

Police to investigate officer's scuffle with skater

11:00 AM CST on Wednesday, January 18, 2006

From Staff Reports

Dallas police have launched an internal investigation into the arrest of a roller derby player who scuffled with an officer trying to cite her for public intoxication and skating in traffic last weekend in Deep Ellum.

The investigation will determine whether Officer Ceaphus Gordon, 39, a 13-year department veteran, acted improperly when he fought with Michelle Metzinger, 25, a member of Assassination City, a roller derby team.

About 12:45 a.m. Saturday, Ms. Metzinger was skating in traffic in the 2800 block of Elm Street when the officer tried to write her a ticket and arrest her on a charge of public intoxication, according to a police report.

The officer stated in his report that she was belligerent and that when he tried to arrest her, she tried to gouge his eye.

While trying to control her, the officer lost his balance and both fell to the ground, the report states.

Dallas police Chief David Kunkle said the department is taking witnesses' allegations of excessive force seriously.

"We just thought it was good to start the investigation now while the memories of the witnesses are fresh and they'll be easy to find," Kunkle said.

Police records show since 1994 there have been at least six allegations against Officer Gordon of excessive force, physical abuse or assault.

Gordon has been disciplined twice for escalating or participating in a disturbance, and once for conduct discrediting the department.

Some of the probes into allegations pointed at the officer were inconclusive, and he has received some commendations for good work.

Meanwhile, Metzinger and her attorney said they may also file a complaint against Officer Gordon.

WFAA-TV reporter Rebecca Lopez contributed to this report.
------------------------

I spent some time in Deep Ellum when I lived in Texas. It was my preferred place to go out for an evening when in Dallas (the West End always seemed too chainy/corporate to me). Dallas was a weird place to go out. Parts of it are dry (as liquor laws are by county in Texas). Right on the border between wet and dry, it was reminiscent of a Mexican border town, with liquor stores and strip clubs. The dry county still sold beer on bars, but you had to buy a membership (even at chain places like Bennigan's).

Other places were even stranger. I stopped at a drive-through beer distributor in San Angelo and bought a case of beer and the guy asked me if I wanted a draft to go. They had a tap and sold Big Gulp cups of beer for two or three bucks...
 
The consequences of not obeying orders from a LEA are not worth it. You threaten a cop with a knife or gun or resist arrest and you deserve what you get. Including death.
Click to expand...

Well technically it seems she was not obeying orders. I guess she can be glad he didn't shoot her on the spot; since you can expect to be killed when resisting an officer, no matter how insignificant the cause is - At least that is what I have taken from some of the statements here. I certainly hope to never get into any trouble with an american cop :( After all, there might be a language-based misunderstanding and *Boom* I'm dead for disobeying orders.

They're not so fast on shooting people for resisting arrest here, but I am fairly sure we will soon enough be up to your standards. :)

Keno
 
Steve Poll said:
Hi Sassas:

Apprehending a woman can be just as difficult as apprehending a man. I speak from first hand experience. The consequences of not obeying orders from a LEA are not worth it. You threaten a cop with a knife or gun or resist arrest and you deserve what you get. Including death. This country is far to easy on criminals as it is. Women use their gender as an excuse to be treated differently than the same male offender. Yet they want equality in the work world.

My .02 worth.

Thanks, Steve
Click to expand...

You gotta be real careful with cops nowadays. My neighbor says he became a cop to help curb his ultra agressive nature. I seem to run into a lot of that hiar trigger personality that is cop typical. This guy had a lot of complaints against him for brutality already. I do think if you threaten ANYONE with a knife or a gun you deserve death though. I just also think our cops ought to be able to handle a drunk woman on skates without such a messy scene.
 
Dito that.

Just to clarify: If you threaten anyone (applies for cops as well) with a weapon [knife, gun, whatever] you''re game in my opinion.

BUT disobeying? Even if you're "resisiting" arrest? You're kidding me, right? Right?
 
richardallen said:
Well technically it seems she was not obeying orders. I guess she can be glad he didn't shoot her on the spot; since you can expect to be killed when resisting an officer, no matter how insignificant the cause is - At least that is what I have taken from some of the statements here. I certainly hope to never get into any trouble with an american cop :( After all, there might be a language-based misunderstanding and *Boom* I'm dead for disobeying orders.

They're not so fast on shooting people for resisting arrest here, but I am fairly sure we will soon enough be up to your standards. :)

Keno
Click to expand...
Stay away from England as well :( (Remember Menzies?)
 
Richardallen:

Considering Germany's crummy attitude toward America these days I suppose your post is about what we should expect from a German passing judgement on American Law Enforcement. Germans are in no position to speak about violence in any other country.

My .02 worth. I don't know how much that is in saintly german money.

Police don't shoot people in the US for resisting. It's only your snide german outlook that wants to think so.

Come on down to Florida. Land where everybody carries a gun. Go to a southern bar and please continue to badmouth my country nice and loud.

Steve
 
Steve,

you have no idea. I do not badmouth your country. Never have, never will. Once again people, in this case you, fail to see the difference between politics and country. Never mind, I'm used to it by now.

Anyways. You said if one would resist arrest a cop you deserve death. Need me to quote you again?

Then you went on about how cops treat criminals too lightly anyways. All this in a thread discussing the case of a drunk skater. So I guess those are the criminals the police should focus on and treat less lightly [with more violence]? I always thought there were more important things for cops to focus on.

"Germans are in no position to speak about violence." Now where'd you get that from? And what's your reasoning? I'm quite curious.

"Come on down to Florida. Land where everybody carries a gun. Go to a southern bar and please continue to badmouth my country nice and loud." - what are you gonna do, shot me for having a different opinion? Free speech? What's that again? Once again, in case you forgot - this is not about your country.

Keno
 
Steve Poll said:
You threaten a cop with a knife or gun or resist arrest and you deserve what you get. Including death.
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve Poll said:
Police don't shoot people in the US for resisting. It's only your snide german outlook that wants to think so.
Steve
Click to expand...

Let's be fair here. It's not richardallen's "snide German outlook" that gave that impression, it's the fact that you said it would be OK. Unless you just meant it was OK to kill them in ways other than by shooting...

EDIT - Just to put a time on this. I started this prior to richardallen's last post, wandered away for a while and came back and sent it.
 
Easy, fellas. I don't think anyone meant any harm until the last two* posts. We're all friends here, right?

*Edit: Not counting SASSAS's post.
 
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