Damascus 1911 Pistol Build: Anyone here really good with a milling machine?

David Schott

David Schott

Joined
Sep 27, 2004
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I have been toying with the idea of building a Damascus frame and slided 1911 pistol for a while now.

I would most likely make the billets myself with the help of some knifemaker buddies, so acquiring a billet big enough for the slide and frame probably wouldn't be an issue.....it'd be a fun project to do!

I'd obviously have to do all the BATF paperwork to build the gun itself, but that is just paperwork in the end....I could get around this by using a pre-made frame, but that defeats my all-damascus 1911 idea.

My big questions are as follows:

-Stresses: I am a bit worried about which parts of the pistol will recieve the worst stresses in conjunction with any possible weld flaws in the billet.

-Any problems with having a carbon steel frame and slide that anyone can think of? Obviously rust would be an issue but Im sure I can find some kind of clearcoat or treatment to minimize that.

-Assuming I have a CAD drawing of the frame and slide, how much would I be talking about in terms of machining costs to have the frame and slide milled/CNC'd?

All internal parts, barrel, etc would be aftermarket parts. I may toy with a damascus hammer and trigger, but those I can do in the comfort of my own shop.
 
For reference, here is a caspian damascus slide, but they want over $800 for the slide alone:

ts4Mopt.jpg
 
There is also a long wait for Caspian Damascus slides. I looked into it once.

It might not be worth the hassle to machine your own frame and be legal. I personally wouldn't want to be on any sort of list, as many pistol smiths have recently been reclassified as 'manufacturers' and subject to inspections by the BATF.

I've built a few 1911's to date. I started with cheap Essex builds then stepped up to Caspians. However, I probably won't do it again, unless I want another comp gun. I'd rather buy something with a warranty and top notch customer service, so I can get it fixed whenever the need arises. Custom guns are like boats, you have to dump a lot of money into them when they don't work right.

Good luck.
 
Ryan, Thanks for the PM, ill look into that for sure.

I wonder if my most cost-effective option might be to contact a few smallish manufacturers of frames and slides and inquire if they'd be willing to swap in a billet of my damascus in their next run of frames at a cost. That might not be an easy sell...
 
Hey!!! Wait a minute where do you plan on making the Damascus????:confused::confused: I would be glad to help. HEHEHEHEHE!!!!
 
indian george said:
Hey!!! Wait a minute where do you plan on making the Damascus????:confused::confused: I would be glad to help. HEHEHEHEHE!!!!
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Obviously at your shop! Youve seen my arms...no way I could pound out a billet big enough for a derringer, nevermind a 1911, by hand! I'll need big bertha!
 
Does anyone know if a lower or mid carbon steel would be preferable to a high carbon knife steel. Supposedly, steels like 4140 are more likely to be used in high pressure cartridge firearms.

Just wondering, Craig
 
Carbon steel ? What did you think the original was made from ? 4140 is the most common steel for guns today .For a 1911 various steels could be used for damascus but no need for high carbon. The popular knife combination , 1084/15N20 could be used when suitably tempered.
 
I will be keeping a close eye on this one! I'd love to see something with a tighter pattern than the ones Caspian et al provide.

Like mete said, as long as the heat treatment/tempering is OK any decent carbon steel will be fine. I seem to recall hardness in the 40-42 range?
 
I got a response from one frame manufacturer, but they don't do slides. They seem interested but say that they do the frames in two halves that are then copper brazed together at 2100 degrees. I wonder if that would cause problems for me with a nickel alloy damascus...i don't think so since I don't need to think of this thing like a knife.

I am going to have to do some research. I am fairly certain I could do the slide in a milling machine from some of the pics I saw...

I will keep everyone posted!

I imagine that I could do something really crazy if I can get all my ducks in a line from the point I have a billet. I have images of feather pattern damascus slides and frames running through my head....i have a feeling that if this project gets started, it will be a LONG project, a money sink, but most likely produce something truely unique and meaningful to me if I could get some collaboration with other knifemakers along the way!
 
Rifle receivers are HT'ed to about 40-42 HRc.Would be fine for 1911.
 
mete said:
Rifle receivers are HT'ed to about 40-42 HRc.Would be fine for 1911.
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See any problem with the 2100 degree copper brazing if the frame needs to be built in two halves and I use a carbon steel and nickel alloy damascus? The manufacturer didn't say "No" to my idea, which i take as an oppurtunity to possibly get this done.
 
www.cncguns.com.They have all the blueprints and cad/cam files you'll need to build a 1911 by scratch.You can legally make and own any firearm thats already legal in your state with no licensing.You only need a license to sell.1911's are pretty easy machining wise.Have fun on this project.
 
i was going to say cnc guns but was beat

im looking for a AR10 lower to build from but not fancy like your plan
less i could go Timascuss:)
 
You can legally make and own any firearm thats already legal in your state with no licensing.
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Correction , You can legally make and own any NON NFA firearm thats already legal in your state with no licensing.
You just can't ever sell it.

I will direct a few gunsmiths over here and see if we can get ya some assistance.
 
Remember that the frame is the "firearm." All other parts are just that. You can make your own frame legally.
 
Okay quick update:

I have a manufacturer who makes 80% frames (i'd do all the final drilling/milling to make things legal)

Heres the kicker: I would need to have two frames made because their tooling cuts two frames at once.

IG: I would need to make TWO slabs of damascus with the dimensions 7/8 X 5 X 12-1/8....thats a pretty huge billet, but do you think its within the capabilities of big bertha? I would think the 12" length and 7/8" thickness wouldnt be too bad, but a 5" wide billet might be tough to stretch out....

Im waiting on a price quote...and I have yet to find anyone who can do the slide, but that should be easier since its not a regulated part, so theoretically I could have any machine shop make it if I supplied them a CAD drawing, which i've found already on the net.
 
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