Damascus blanks...what to expect

C

cs900

Joined
Dec 2, 2016
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Hello everyone...new to the forum and knife making in general, but not to metal working. I've decided to jump in head first only to realize I don't know how deep the pool is yet. In my ignorance I went and bought some damascus blanks from a gent on amazon with the intention of making a simple frame lock for myself. Well I received the blanks and smacked my head on the bottom of the pool. Now that my intelligence level about knife making is known I’d like to get some feedback from some experienced builders. The blanks I received are all kinds of bent and twisted. On top of that the thickness varies all over the place. Is this normal for damascus blanks?

I got a bit of the bend out just by over-bending it the opposite direction, but this twist has got be buggered. I can’t seem to “counter twist” it enough to reduce the defective twist. Once I get it semi-straight I can machine one side flat, then grind it parallel, but it seems i'm a ways off from getting there yet.
 
We need pictures to see exactly what your talking about. Are these kits? And thy just unground blades? Are thy heat treated? So many questions. I will give you one nugget of wisdom, if you feal like you got a killer deal on Damascus you most likely got what you paid for or worse. Damascus takes a good amount of time and materials to make. Generally expect to pay between $50 to $100 per cubic inch for good Damascus. That being said we need more info to help you better.
 
Hey, JT I could never afford your pieces on GOOD Damascus. A more realistic price is $20 - $30 and Damasteel and Mike Norris in many patterns is less than that.
Frank
 
First, thanks for the quick reply.

second, pictures I can do. It is just a blank, not part of a kit. I got most of the bend out, but this shows the twist in it. The thickness varies as well and tends to bulge in the center which is why the whole front side is elevated
20161216_163618_zps6cqmxf8a.jpg

20161216_163601_zpsi2opkhlm.jpg


third, I'm only mildly irritated by it. It's cheap stuff and I knew that going into it. As much as I hate to admit it, it's "just for the look". I just didn't know if this is the condition of most damascus blanks or if this sample is particularly bad. I'm more irritated by the fact that it's supposed to be heat treated and only comes in at 26-28HRc. I suppose I should be happy otherwise i couldn't bend it back into shape without an oven.
 
Personally I would not want raw stock in a heat treated state. Being soft has the advantage of grinding easier as well as being soft for filing. What I would do first being that we don't know that quality of that steel is do some normalizing/stress releasing heats. Damascus will tend to warp when heated and cooled if it was not properly treated at the end of forging. After you normalize it then straighten it and start grinding. After grinding your ready for heat treating.
 
Frank Niro said:
Hey, JT I could never afford your pieces on GOOD Damascus. A more realistic price is $20 - $30 and Damasteel and Mike Norris in many patterns is less than that.
Frank
Click to expand...

Cubic inch not liner inch. Mike Norris Price look good till you do the math.
His cheapest Damascus is 1"wide by .100 thick and that's $11.50 per inch. That is $115 per cubic inch so my numbers where right in line with what it should be.
 
CS900, You not only jumped in headfirst but you jumped into the deep end and still hit your head. I went in the shallow end with fixed blades and and I'm still recovering from the knots on my head HAHAHA.
That said, you apparently figured out how to quickly post photos on this forum and that is still beyond my reach. Given the number of photos posted there must be a way to simply snap the old cell phone and post it.
 
JTknives said:
Personally I would not want raw stock in a heat treated state. Being soft has the advantage of grinding easier as well as being soft for filing. What I would do first being that we don't know that quality of that steel is do some normalizing/stress releasing heats. Damascus will tend to warp when heated and cooled if it was not properly treated at the end of forging. After you normalize it then straighten it and start grinding. After grinding your ready for heat treating.
Click to expand...
thanks for the advise. I just picked up a little oven so i should be able to do that pretty easy.

Red Fury,
Yeah, but i'm fairly confident I can handle the job. Damascus (especially cheap damascus) probably was a poor choice to start with, but I feel my skill sets are high enough that I can handle a flipper without TOO much trouble.

As far as photos go. I snap them with my phone and upload them to photobucket with the fancy app. Then it's as simple as linking to the picture in the thread.
 
Not sure what you mean by oven, but unless it hits 1600 degrees it wont help in normalizing. If it is a normal toaster or kitchen oven it will be useful for tempering, but not for normalizing or hardening. I think much of the early confusion is based on terminology as well. Most here would call what you purchased a billet, and not a blank. Typically a blank is a blade that has already been profiled, and may or may not be bevelled. Additionally i agree with JT on the fact that you wouldnt want the billets heat treated before you got them. Being hardened already would mean you wouldnt be able to file, cut or drill it properly, or maybe even at all, depending on their heat treat and your equipment.
 
its a temco 1525 oven, not like a kitchen oven, haha.

I agree working with tempered steel is much easier, but carbide works wonders in high rockwell steel. I was hoping I wouldn't have to heat treat it, but i'll add it to the research list. I love learning new things, so i'm not overly disappointed with that either, haha.
 
It still was certainly not simple but I got the photo.. WoooHooo. How do you like the visible forging in this old thing? Sorry to go off topic. I'll shut up now but you can certainly see how similar to the OP's Sheffield blade the construction is. However we are no closer to determining the answer.
 
As someone who makes framelocks full time I'd leave the twisted stock for bolsters, fixed blades, small parts, etc. If you have the oven you may be better off buying some precision ground tool steel or just some more high end dammy. Twists and bends are part of being a knifemaker, I straighten stuff all day long but it took me 1000 fixed blades to get somewhat of a grip on the procedure.

You can try to straighten on your surface plate with a mallet and some leather shims if the steel is soft.

Your best bet to save that piece will be to straighten as much as possible then grind one side flat. Alternate sides to keep heat even but make sure one side is dead flat then surface grind from there with the flat side down. You can also try hand lapping it but that works best with stock that is already relatively flat.

Is the dammy just for the blade?

I'd seriously consider using somewhat affordable materials for the build. Building framelocks is tricky... I just threw a blade away today!
 
well i appreciate your input. The billet was meant for just the blade.

So maybe a good plan of attack. Anneal then cut out the rough shape. Sand/grind one side flat as my reference. Then surface grind the other side. Flip back to the first side and surface grind to final thickness.
 
How about returning the steelast and getting your money back. That sounds like the best option.
 
I've tried contacting the seller, but he's magically too busy to get back with me. I'm starting to just be grateful that I received it at all instead of being stiffed.

any who. I picked up that oven last night. Needs a bit of TLC but hopefully it works well.
 
To get a twist out of annealed steel, I clamp one end in a vice and with a pipe wrench on the other end, twist it straight. Now if what you have is not annealed, you run the risk of breaking it.
 
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