Damascus steel question...

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Feb 24, 2016
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What are the benefits of modern Damascus steel. I apologize for my ignorance. In everything I have read up on it, there seem to be conflicting opinions. Is there a benefit to modern Damascus steel over a modern knife steel? Is the only difference in how it looks?
Thank you for any info/advice/opinions you can share.
 
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that back in the day, it was a way of achieving desired steel characteristics with steel that wasn't as good as it is today. These days, I think that most modern steels are high enough performance that damascus is more of an aesthetic/luxury.
 
Muaddib nailed it

It's beautiful, it takes alot of time, skill, and effort to make.

But your paying for "art"

Not performance.
 
I'm no expert, but my understanding is that back in the day, it was a way of achieving desired steel characteristics with steel that wasn't as good as it is today. These days, I think that most modern steels are high enough performance that damascus is more of an aesthetic/luxury.

This.

These day, damascus is mainly for aesthetic. But a well-made damascus with proper HT sure can be a great performer.
 
The Damascus steel of medieval legend is not the Damascus steel commonly available today.

The legendary Damascus was a Wootz steel. It was superior to other contemporary steels because it had less inclusions due to the Wootz smelting process. There is also some evidence that it was based on ore from a specific ore deposit. That ore had specific concentrations of other metals.

The material currently called "Damascus" is actually "pattern welded Damascus". It is made by pressing thin sheets of different alloys together under heat and pressure to form a single block. The alloys are chosen so as to discolor in a pattern. I am unaware of any superiority of pattern welded Damascus compared to modern alloys.

Here are some good references on traditional Damascus steel.
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom/9809/verhoeven-9809.html
 
Thank you to everyone. I was of the opinion that it was mainly a cosmetic thing and not a higher quality steel. I just wasn't sure I was correct. I am very new to knife collecting and wanted more experienced input.
 
One thing that should be noted, you can get damasteel blades with a broad variety of core steels that will make up the cutting edge. So you can get great performance from a damascus blade, I think Chad Nichols makes or made M390 core damascus, but you'll pay significantly more for the aesthetic aspect and it won't outperform a monosteel blade in any way.
 
Quoted from Devin Thomas:

Is damascus better than a single steel?

"In short, we don't know, though there are plenty of theories to wonder about, there has been no major testing done on damascus to find out. Any testing that has been done hasn't been extensive enough to prove anything, but there has been a very little testing done. There are many possible advantages;for example, O1 is a very wear resistant steel, while 15N20 is very tough. When O1 and 15n20 are used together, it may get a combination of toughness and wear resistance not found in either steel. There is also the possibility of increased edge retention with damascus steels. Two steels that have high edge retention with different compositions, and possibly for different compositional reasons, may have the best of both worlds when used together. A common example is the serration effect given by a softer steel with a hard one. This can be good or bad, depending on the application. Another example is our AEB-L/154CM damascus, one is a steel with very small carbides (AEB-L), and the other has large carbides (154CM). The AEB-L is going to be fine grained and have small carbides, giving it a fine, polished edge, good for certain cuts, while 154CM is convential, meaning it will have some large, bulky carbides, which generally means your knife edge is going to be slightly toothy after some cutting, even if you get a fine polish in the first place, which is good for many different cuts than those good for a polished edge. Together, you may get some of the best properties of both. We plan on doing testing on this, either with a CATRA machine or another method, though it might be difficult to show that there is an increase in performance with general testing methods. Another interesting thing about high-alloy double high carbon damascus is that the steels respond to heat treatment better after being forge welded together into damascus, meaning they get harder. This shows that there is some reduction of the carbide size, and more evenly distributed carbides, after the forging.

We are also considering providing san-mai material such as stainless laminated CPM-M4 to give some stain resistance and ease of finishing to CPM-M4. In addition to the fine/coarse combinations of AEB-L/154CM, 3V/154CM, etc. we also make coarse/coarse: D2/154CM or fine/fine: AEB-L/CPM-154 and 3V/CPM-154. In double high carbon mixes, we are limited to steels with high nickel in carbon steels (15N20), or high molybdenum in stainless steels (BG42, 154CM/ATS-34, CPM-154) to provide a bright layer for contrast. Those stainless mixes containing high molybdenum such as 154CM are not as easy to etch as those with 302, and require etching with muriatic (swimming pool acid or HCl) or sulfuric acid rather than Ferric Chloride. These high performance mixes are also limited to certain patterns...."
 
I have a Kershaw Skyline with the Alabama Damascus blade. To me, an attractive carbon steel blade with a rust resistant acid etched finish was an upgrade over the regular stainless as I like and use other carbon steel blades. And I got a good price on it, so it wasn't an expensive "upgrade".

The most common steels used in US damascus are usually good blade steels on their own, and in combination may produce a blade with characteristics that are at least the sum of their parts. In other words, if I see a simple damascus blade of 15N20 and 1084 for the same price as a 1095 or O1 blade, I'd probably get the damascus for both its beauty and forged combination alloy steel.

Nothing magic about it, but maybe you get the best of several carbon steels. That's a nice functional reason for me to enjoy damascus.
 
Thank you to everyone. I was of the opinion that it was mainly a cosmetic thing and not a higher quality steel. I just wasn't sure I was correct. I am very new to knife collecting and wanted more experienced input.

I have been of the opinion that some Damascus can be heat treated to relatively high RC, like mid-higher 60's, and that this was one of its 'advantages.' Not sure where I picked that up, probably from some knife maker long ago.

I'm not a Damascus fan and prefer solid, shiny cold steel but a few of the 'mascus patterns are interesting visually.
 
I have been of the opinion that some Damascus can be heat treated to relatively high RC, like mid-higher 60's, and that this was one of its 'advantages.' Not sure where I picked that up, probably from some knife maker long ago.

I'm not a Damascus fan and prefer solid, shiny cold steel but a few of the 'mascus patterns are interesting visually.

It isn't. That's just because it is composed of steels that would ordinarily get that hard.
 
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