Damp/Wet overnight camping

B

billy_cee

Joined
Nov 12, 2005
Messages
130
Hiya all,

I'm happy to do a day hike in the wet, as I know I'll be able to steam myself warm again when I get back to the car and then head home for a hot bath.

What I'm not so keen on is the thought of overnight damp/wet camping. I'm a bit of a fair weather camping in this regard and have been lucky to date not to get caught out in the rain during overngith hikes. I do take what I think is the right gear to keep me and my kit dry but, there is that stage between opening your backpack in the rain, to getting a camp setup and going on to try and dry yourself and kit our, as well as cooking up something hot.

I do have a Australian army style hoochie (I have two and they can snap together) which I thought I would put up first to create a dry area to work within.

I know I'm going to get one day and I want the challange of some of the higher Alpine walks we have in the High Country in Victoria, Australia. To do that, I know I'm going have to need a better plan in place.

Any ideas or suggestions on had to make the best of a bad deal?

Thanks.
 
You can carry an extra little tarp with you to set up stuff under.

I have a rainproof pack cover and carry a plastic garbage bag to put over my pack at night. Also I wear the nylon clothing that dries out real quick. My tent is a North Face Tadpole and it is super dry in the rain. I have even had clothes dry out in it overnight even though it was raining outside:thumbup:
 
Put on an army poncho and sleep in that. Before settling down, change to dry clothes, cotton or polypro, and hunker down. A single night can be down relatively easy. Put your exposed feet in a plastic bag.

If carrying a pack, use plastic bags inside to keep things dry. Raingear and tents/tarps should be placed on the top of the pack, readily accessible.

Some people I know sleep inside 2 heavy duty plastic bags. - one to cover the lower body, the other to cover the torso. They cut an opening for their head to stick out and wear a hat.

Two training films include 'Forrest Gump' and 'Platoon.'
 
If your clothing gets wet, get into dry clothes. Your body loses much more heat if you are cold/wet vs cold/dry.

Put your damp (not soaking wet) clothes in the bottom of your sleeping bag when you sleep. Your body heat will dry them out by morning.
 
For return on investment in terms of weight, nothing beats a good silicone impregnated nylon tarp with tie loops around its perimeter.

Depending on the size, for between 14 and 20 ounces, you get a fairly bombproof shelter against water that you can rig anyway you need to for the terrain.
 
balrog said:
Put your damp (not soaking wet) clothes in the bottom of your sleeping bag when you sleep. Your body heat will dry them out by morning.
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This can work with a polyester-insulated bag, and I've done it. It will lower the insulation value of the bag to some extent.

I'd forget "sleeping" sitting under your poncho or inside trash bags -- unless there is no other choice. A good night's sleep is just too important to skip on, and tents and tarps today are light.

I would look for a backpacking tent that allows you to enter and leave without rain getting in. Many of the "one-man" tents are weak in that regard.
 
I'd like some answers more in the vein of using natural materials and shelters rather than plastics-based ponchos bought from a store myself.
 
Vivi said:
I'd like some answers more in the vein of using natural materials and shelters rather than plastics-based ponchos bought from a store myself.
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You could become Ted's Supermax penpal and ask him about it.:rolleyes:
 
Vivi said:
I'd like some answers more in the vein of using natural materials and shelters rather than plastics-based ponchos bought from a store myself.
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Well, you could set up in a cave. That was the preferred solution of ancient inhabitants.

Short of that, lacking modern gear, it takes a considerable investment of resources to build a shelter that keeps out serious rain. (Hence, the use of caves.) Each drop needs to be repeatedly intercepted and moved progressively towards the outside of your "dry area" before can drip on you. The material available in my area dictates a dense 24" or so of brush to do the job.

Or I can set up my tarp in under ten minutes.
 
Oven bags are tougher and lighter than trash bags and are the right size for pack compartments. Twist, tie off with rubberband, and you won't need some supposedly waterproof pack cover. I've taken a bag of clothes packed this way and submerged it in the tub overnight, and not a drop got in.

Wool and poly are warm when wet. Cotton and down aren't.

If you walk in the rain, you'll get wet and cold eventually.

I have not heard of "natural materials and shelters." What are they?
 
Well tarps and all good and well, very useful when you have them, but what if you don't? This is wilderness survival, and I'm just wondering how to survive in the chance that I'd be in the wilderness with no modern, waterproof items on my person. A cave would be choice, but a lot of areas simply do not have caves or cave-like structures. Just seeing what kind of ideas everyone could throw out to help expand my own knowledge.
 
Lacking a tarp or some ready-made shelter, you are describing the need to build a water-proof shelter of "natural" materials. The concept, as I tried to communicate, is that water runs down a stick, leaf, peice of grass until it comes to the lower end of that item. If another stick, etc. is there to intercept the falling drop, it travels along that stick to its end. Mass enough sticks, etc. in a thick enough layer, and the drop doesn't get through to you. Think of "thatch" roofs - same idea.

Shearch "brush shelter" here and on Google.

A trash bag, cut open, is a nice item to help build a shelter.

The same thick layer stops wind, and if the shelter fits pretty snug insulates as well.

In the "good old days," folks often just got wet and suffered.
 
What I have used is all synthetic clothes and a synthetic sleeping bag -- things that can be wrung out if required.

There are some really amazing fabrics these days that have some thickness to them and behave the same structurally both wet and dry. By that I mean they do not stick together like layers of woven fabric or get baggy like soaked pile. They hold their dimensions and function normally. You generally cannot tell someone is soaked until you touch their clothes.

Next to your body you need something failry slick. If you wear layers of wet clothing and do a lot of moving around, you stand a good chance of chafing half to death.

For sleeping, wring your clothes out as well as possible and sleep in them. This usually means a watch cap, socks, gloves, thermal underwear, and quite possibly a light jacket and pants. Ths assumes your bag has gotten reasonably wet as well. Obviously you want to protect it from being wet to the extent possible.

Many of these things can be traded for wool given the desire. Wool is very heavy but also pretty warm when wet.

In short, my philosohy is not to be afraid to get soaked. ('Wet' and 'cold' are not the same thing.) Just wear clothes that allow it.

I don't know much about natural fibers. However, I do have a very vague recollection of very wide hats being worn by Asians and perhaps also Native Americans in the Pacific Northwest. In the Northwest, I think they used cedar bark. I suspect a wide-brimmed hat woven of almost any suitable plant fiber would work pretty well for shedding rain, at least in the short term.

Scott.
 
There are only two ways you're ever likely to get stuck in the wild: You're driving through it on the highway when your car breaks down, or you go there on purpose. If it's a car breakdown, you stay with the car. If you went to the wild on purpose, then there's just no excuse for not bringing a couple of small things that could save your life. These things are in all likelihood smaller, lighter, and less expensive than the tools you'd need to construct a shelter from available materials, and they take less planning to take and use.

I'd say never go far from civilization without one of those silver mylar emergency sleeping bags. You can slip it in your back pocket. Don't laugh, and don't be fooled by the fact that it's a short hike in broad daylight. You can fall and bust your leg or get lost, and there you are stuck overnight in the rain. Hypothermia kills more hikers than anything, and it does so mostly at above-freezing air temperatures.

Note that with a busted leg or the sudden onset of bad weather, knowing how to make a lean-to out of the local vegetation would be of dubious value.

If you're hiking with a day pack, stick a cheap vinyl tarp in there, preferably one with the silver mylar backing, and some rope and plastic stakes. Along with a hiking staff or some trees or even deadfall, you've got a shelter.

Water purification tablets take up no space and could come in very handy.

Why not ziploc some dry wool socks, some gloves, and a warm hat while you're at it and toss that in the bag? And of course, a compact, basic first aid kit.

Don't forget an Esbit stove and fuel tabs and stormproof matches (whole package about the size of a cigarette pack or two).

All this stuff weighs about as much as a hatchet, maybe a tad more, and can not only save your life but enable you to ride out a crisis in relative comfort. Woodcraft can't do that.
 
Well weasel, if you're ever read Walden, I'm sort of trying to re-enact it. I grew up a sheltered city boy who knew nothing of firecraft, hunting, shelters and the like. I want to be able to support myself by living off the land so I've been trying to educate myself to prepare for it. When I go out and try this, I will definately be bringing modern things like knives, medical supplies, tarps etc. But ideally I'd like to live off the land itself and not store-bought things. Ideal probably being the key word. Regardless, I'm trying to learn all I can about living off what nature has to offer, because even if we do have modern technologies with us, it's nice to have a reliable backup plan.
 
Vivi,

Where do you live?

Don't get too caught up in transcendentalism the noble savage and all that, and go pull a Chris McCandless. :o

I love to go into the woods with minimalistic gear and try new things, but I always have a back up plan and people know where I am and when I am supposed to be back. Chris
 
WeaselBites said:
. . .
Hypothermia kills more hikers than anything, and it does so mostly at above-freezing air temperatures. . . .
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Let me first say that your post truly contains tons of excellent advice.

Next, let me say that a hundred or more writers, some persons that anyone would have to call experts, agree with your statement. It's what I was taught in 1962 and ever after. It is repeated over and over by hunting and boating safety courses and "official" literature.

Nevertheless, our conduct should be informed by data rather than anecdotes There have been two published statistical studies of death in the wilderness. One was a study of fatalities in western National Parks. The other was a study of fatalities in New Hampshire SAR cases. The data is remarkably similar. The biggest killers in those studies are heart attack, drowning, and falls. In both studies hypothermia is statistically trivial compared to those three.

Why heart atacks? Out-of-shape middleagers who think they are still the young studs they were once. (A mostly male COD in the wilderness.)

Drowning? A nice cool dip on a hot day. Overloaded (often rented) boats/canoes. Crossing rushing streams. A step in a hole when wading.

Falls? Gravity + folks who overestimate their ability to emulate the fly.

I have asked several authors and websites that repeat what "everybody knows" about hypothermia where they get their data. They have either responded with an admission that they have no basis for their statement or have not responded at all.

Not to say at all that we should not prepare for cold (or heat). 98.6 is still one of the great goals, in service of which we gather gear, knowledge, and experience. And this is a great place to learn in all three categories. But we should not forget the causes of over 75% of wilderness fatalities in the only published studies. I know it changed my teaching approach.
 
Expedient shelters of natural materials are not too time consuming if you don't try to get fancy. A servicable shelter can be built without tools in under an hour in most woodlands.

Some evergreens are conical with dense drooping branches and provide ready made rain shelters. All you have to add is a small windbreak.

I slept in a canebrake on a river once tying a dozen or so canes into a cone shape (still rooted and uncut), then wrapped my milspec poncho over it, built a tiny warming fire of twigs inside, and stayed dry and toasty. Next morning I untied the cane, swept the area and you could not tell I had been there.

Dry bluff shelters and small caves are very good. And have been used for milinia. Just watch for the woodland inhabitants. You'd hate waking up to the song of a rattler.

An overturned canoe makes a good shelter as well, though a narrow one.

A fallen log banked with sticks crisscrossed, then covered with layers of leaves or grass laid in rows bottom to top and topped with a few more sticks to hold it in place works well and sheds water.

Heck, just sitting on the lee side of a large leaning tree can keep you pretty dry in a moderate rain. I do this while out hunting quite often.

Yes, tents and canvas sheets are nice to have, but it is also nice learning to do without them.

Codger
 
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