Damp/Wet overnight camping

Codger makes some good points about natural shelters.

I got caught in a storm out hunting and just did not feel like coming in yet. Near where I was set up was some thick bushes. I was able to take some evergreen branches thick with pineneedles and add them above me inside the dense bush. Granted rain still got through, but it was more of a trickle. Combined with my gore-tex hooded jacket I was comfortable enough that I took a nap.

Campsite selection can be important too. A low area surrounded by hills might protect you from chilling wind, but as night comes on and convection comes into play, it will become colder. Regarding rain, you need to watch how rainwater runoff will travel. If your selected campsite is in the path of a natural rainwater funnel, then expect to be wet.
 
I just wrote a short article on a jungle hootch I came up with to help with multiple rainy nights in the New York woods. It uses a simple travel hammock, army issue poncho, bug netting, and bungee cords. The end result is a comfortable place to sleep off of the wet ground with a bug net and overhead cover. The article with pictures can be found at http://www.relentlessknives.com/articles.html
 
Thomas Linton said:
The biggest killers in those studies are heart attack, drowning, and falls. In both studies hypothermia is statistically trivial compared to those three.
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Well, I'll be damned.

Used to be, we had sense enough to stay off cliffs. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
 
Do they mention that loss of motor skills & judgement, due to hypothermia, could have lead to the falls & drownings and maybe heart attacks?
 
Ebbtide said:
Do they mention that loss of motor skills & judgement, due to hypothermia, could have lead to the falls & drownings and maybe heart attacks?
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Nope. They are reported the official, medical causes of death. So they don't list "poor judgment," which typically leads to lots of bad things. That's what got Joe Hunter out there in his little boat in a Half Gale. Hadta' get his limit of ducks.

Loss of motor skills leading to heart attacks? Unlikely. But falls -- including falls into water -- I could see resulting from hypothermia -- or exhaustion -- or beer. However, many reported fatal falls resulted during "climbing."

It was not what I expected to find based on everything I had read and been taught over the years.

Sorta like "everyone knew" wool was "the only" material for hiking socks. Avoid "artificial" fabrics like the Black Death. It was in the official BSA literature as late as 1990. But I had noticed top marathon runners using man-mades and I began to wonder if what "everyone knew" was true. It wasn't.

Go back to the late 1950's and "everyone knew" drinking water in severe exercise caused cramps. Coaches were stationed at the water bucket to make sure you spat the water out. It was just to rinse out the mouth. Duh.

At the least, we ought to think about risks other than cold/heat. For example, how much weight do a few aspirin add to the load?
 
Before I stopped hiking in the Smoky Mt's, due to too many people, I saw lots of people who really had no buisness being in the woods. People in just poor shape, improper clothes/footwear, no water/food/gear, just skipping along oblivious to everything. Same people a mile or 2 in, and several degrees of elevation later and they would be sucking wind.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Why heart attacks? Out-of-shape middleagers who think they are still the young studs they were once. (A mostly male COD in the wilderness.)

Drowning? A nice cool dip on a hot day. Overloaded (often rented) boats/canoes. Crossing rushing streams. A step in a hole when wading.

Falls? Gravity + folks who overestimate their ability to emulate the fly.
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Thomas,

It is great to have such knowledgeable people on this forum.

So we need to be more concerned about not over exerting ourselves, being very careful around water and being careful where we step. I heard that drownings are the biggest outdoor killer; is that correct? I also heard that being cold causes people to be clumsy, maybe that accounts for some of the falls.

Thanks!
 
I was thinking more along the lines of someone falling into cold water.
He gets hypothermic, and can't keep himself afloat...
And drowns.
Now drowning would be the official cause of death, right?

Or someone who is quite cold, shivering cold (hypothermic?). The person makes the bad decision to keep walking and attempts to climb or traverse a tricky section of trail and falls.
The fall kills him.
The official cause of death would be the fall, right?

Not trying to be right, but wondering if the report that you refer to had any background/add'l info or just the COD statistics.

Thinkin' out loud, if you will.
 
Ebbtide said:
I was thinking more along the lines of someone falling into cold water.
He gets hypothermic, and can't keep himself afloat...
And drowns.
Now drowning would be the official cause of death, right?

Or someone who is quite cold, shivering cold (hypothermic?). The person makes the bad decision to keep walking and attempts to climb or traverse a tricky section of trail and falls.
The fall kills him.
The official cause of death would be the fall, right?

Not trying to be right, but wondering if the report that you refer to had any background/add'l info or just the COD statistics.

Thinkin' out loud, if you will.
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Ebb,

You do good work.

The University of Alberta did several studies in the last few years regarding hypothermia in the water. The thing is, no one really dies from hypothermia. I know what you are thinking.. No one? And you are right. Of course people die of hypothermia. BUT it takes, in most cases, over an hour for hypothermia to cause death, even in water at 0 C. In about 3 - 4 minutes, motor skills are gone, muscles don't work, and they drown. In fact, in many cases, they are not even in the full stages of hypothermia before they drown. That is why the accepted practice, if you go through the ice and cannot readily get out, is to lay your arms, from the tip of your glove or end of your wet sleeves to your armpits on the ice in the hopes they will freeze there. Then curl your knees to your chest. That way you (maybe) won't drown, and rescuers will have time to get you out.
Of course, few actually know this, and drown. Thus the reason drowning deaths "out there" are so far ahead of hypothermia.
(And yes, the coroner or medical examiner, depending on what you have in your jurisdiction, will rule drowning as the cause of death. I asked the Chief Medical Examiner in Edmonton this exact question at a course in May)

Hope this helps.
 
Ebb, the data may be in the raw material, but not in the reports I found on (and by means of) the Internet. You could be right. In fact, I'm sure that some "drowning" cases must fit your scenario. Still, saying in "98.6" (An otherwise useful book - except that he's "knife challenged.") that hypotheria is so overwelmingly the killer that everything else is unimportant seems extreme and inaccurate. And most lake and river drownings in Ohio per our DNR are in the Summer, when the water is warmest. More exposure=more deaths. I just think a very important risk has soemhow devoured all the other risks - even some more deadly.
 
Tom Linton wrote:
Well, you could set up in a cave. That was the preferred solution of ancient inhabitants.

Short of that, lacking modern gear, it takes a considerable investment of resources to build a shelter that keeps out serious rain. (Hence, the use of caves.) Each drop needs to be repeatedly intercepted and moved progressively towards the outside of your "dry area" before can drip on you. The material available in my area dictates a dense 24" or so of brush to do the job.

Or I can set up my tarp in under ten minutes.
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Tom,
I bet a cave would definetely provide the best shelter for his situation, and I am not going to challenge you on that. However, I have heard that tents capable of keeping water out have been available for a while. From what I have heard, the GI tents from the American Civil War were even capable of keeping water out, so long as the inhabitant did not touch the tent. Any truth to that?
 
mp510 said:
Tom Linton wrote:


Tom,
I bet a cave would definetely provide the best shelter for his situation, and I am not going to challenge you on that. However, I have heard that tents capable of keeping water out have been available for a while. From what I have heard, the GI tents from the American Civil War were even capable of keeping water out, so long as the inhabitant did not touch the tent. Any truth to that?
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He was asking for "natural" solutions.

Touching cotton canvas will produce leaks at that spot (by breaking surface tension, IIRC). Also, heavy rain hitting cotton canvas will cause misting inside the tent. (You can see it in a flashlight beam.) Still, a canvas tent is a lot better than nothing - and faster to set up than a brush shelter.

Natural fabric tents have been around for thousands of years.
 
Thanks guys a lot of great feedback. I'll be sure to add some extra items to my day pack and I'll be paying some more attention to my bushcraft skills when it comes to shealters made from what is around me.

I currently use Zip Lock bags for the smaller items, to keep them dry and this works for my dash-1 gear, that is on me all the time. For the bigger items I use dry stuff bags.
 
You know what's waterproof and cheap? Poly tarp! Yeah, yeah, natural, etc. But I wouldn't leave home without it.
 
This is my 'overhang' tarp made by wilderness equipment.

OverhangTarp.jpg



http://www.hikelight.com.au/prod188.htm

It's size enables it to be set up in many configurations and it can be rigged very taut in the wind. For multi day walks in wet windy weather I'll still be using my tent, an MSR Hubba Hubba. But for day walks where there is a chance of getting stuck in foul weather I'll throw in my tarp and a few lightweight pegs. It packs down very small and only weighs 700g.
 
Lots of good info in this thread.

Vivi, if you still tune into this thread and really want to do the 100% primitive thing, do a bunch of research first. There are a gazillion books out there on primitive living and survival techniques. Acquire a number of different books that interest you, read them, and consider different techniques for doing different things.

Next, plan day trips to practice techniques. After that, look into an overnight trip. If you have a buddy that is interested in this stuff, that's even better. Two heads can usually combine to solve most dilemmas.

Even if you become a master backwoodsman, I suggest you ALWAYS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN (or two). When you go on your primitive adventures, take modern equipment with you as a safety precaution. Water, knife, simple and reliable firemaking supplies, first aid items, a signaling device (or two, different methods), and something like a poncho or small tarp would be my suggestions. I am, by far, no expert on the topic, but I have read and heard about too many people that strike out for adventure, end up getting lost or injured, and die or barely make it home alive.

Be Prepared - Physically, mentally, and equipment-wise.
Have a backup plan.
Use the buddy system, if you can.
Think outside the box.

Primitive skills and the 'simpler' ways of life are ideas that I, too, find fascinating and romantic. Be careful out there, and enjoy!
 
I forgot to mention my other tips for being out in the wet. I've done a few week long trips in the past where it rarely stopped raining and learned the hard way.

Basically - any pack (or panier) of mine can be fully dunked in the water without getting my essential gear wet. Clothes, sleeping bag, notebook and food are all in there own water tight containers - either a zip lock bag, dry bag (water proof stuff sack) or sealed canister. Tent, cooking gear, poles etc don't need to be kept dry. I never rely on the pack to be waterproof.

When camping I'll either wait for a gap in the showers to set up the tent or, if the rain is persistent I'll set up the fly on the groundsheet first then crawl inside and clip the tent up inside. This is a bit awkward and tricky and in reality there is nearly always a gap in the showers. Then I'll throw the dry bags inside the tent and unpak them when I'm ready to change clothes and sleep. Damp clothes are wrung out and hung inside the tent to dry. I've found that a slightly damp polypro top under a goretex jacket will be dried by your body's heat while you are walking - and it will keep you warm even if it doesn't.

The inevitable damp spots you create inside the tent while setting up can be wiped dry with an absorbant pack towel.

Polypro longjohns, two polypro tops and a polypro balaclava are all essential items for me in the wet - as is a polypro sleeping bag liner (Sea to Summit thermalite reactor is the brand I have). They'll keep you warm even when you are damp.

Also gaiters. With gaiters and good waterproof boots I've managed to keep my feet dry all day in steady rain.
 
Thanks for the post Hikeeba. That's prettymuch what I've got planned. For the past half year or so, I've really been reading up on this stuff a good bit. Been outside when I can practicing these things. I want to find a place to go on hunts, so I can pick up skills in that area from people who know what they're doing. I've thought about just catching a rabbit and trying it out myself. I should, it'd be fun. Heh.
 
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