Dang Dagger!!

panch0

panch0

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
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I have been trying to get a full tang dagger from 1084 ground out and can't seem to get it even.:mad: I take a little off here then a little more from there, then it still looks off. I can just imagine how hard it is to forge one of these and get it symmetrical. I am just going to have to cut out another blank.

What I did was cut out the shape from a manila folder to get the sides even. The scribed the lines into the 1084 stock. Ground it out and it still seems to be off. How do you guys keep things even?
 
Consider what you think you would take off of one side to make it even, and then do 1/4 or 1/2 of that. :D You've roped a mountain lion by the tail, Frank. I've never attempted a dagger, but symmetry is something that I can se being hard to come by in those blades. I'd suggest small adjustments followed by small adjustments, checking with calipers as you go.

--nathan
 
silver_pilate said:
Consider what you think you would take off of one side to make it even, and then do 1/4 or 1/2 of that. :D You've roped a mountain lion by the tail, Frank. I've never attempted a dagger, but symmetry is something that I can se being hard to come by in those blades. I'd suggest small adjustments followed by small adjustments, checking with calipers as you go.

--nathan
Click to expand...

I know I know. Patience is something I am working on. I am kind of a brut.
 
Keep coming back to scribing a center line. Check often against your template. Once you have the shape symmetrical grinding the bevels isn't too hard. Use a file guide or a good square to keep the plunge cuts symmetrical. After that it's just keeping centered.

Get some wood furring strips (about 3/8 x 1 1/2) and practice several times there. Because the wood grinds away so quick it will shoiw you where you need to add or relieve pressure.

Good luck,

Gene
 
As Gene mentioned a center line is VERY important !

What I do is center punch two dots on each side of the tang on the centerline before starting bevels. This way after repeated passes, dunkings, and wipes I can line my straight edge up on those center punches and use a fine tipped sharpie to get a new centerline back in place.

-Josh
 
I'm no expert, but I think it is best to keep the center ridge steep with gradual taper to the tip. Makes a better dagger and tends to stay even better than a thin shallow center.
 
I think what Nathan is saying is this-

Dont overlap the grinds on the same side of the blade to keep the center ridge full thickness for most of the length of the blade.

I seem to inevitably get the grinds overlapping on the last 1/2 to 3/4" of the blade.

I have been leaving around a 1/16" flat running down the center pre-HT then taking a few passes at 120 grit to sneak up real close then do the final adjustments with a 220.

I'm certainly no expert but I'm finishing up a sheath for my 5th dagger and got #6 ready for a little scrimshaw.

I may be mistaken, Is the problem with the profile or keeping the bevels centered ?

If the problem is profiling you'll come out ahead if you scribe a centerline on your barstock then make the manilla pattern half of the blade. Line up on the centerline then flip the pattern to scribe the second side.

If your profile looks off then scribe a line perpendicular to the centerline in a few places and check the measurment from the center to each side.

Good luck, Josh
 
As others have said make your blank symmetrical,draw in or scribe in center lines.Now the trick is to use a G clamp to clamp the blank to a square block of wood so that the straight edge of the blank is level with the top of the wood block.Next have a table that you can tilt set up infront of your contact wheel.Place the wood block with the blank clamped to it , onto the table and then push the blade onto the contact wheel and pull along to make a pass.I grinde to the edge line first and then tap the table down till the bevil gets to the middle line and then stop. Take the blank off and turn it over,line up edge to top of block and grinde in other side bevel keeping the table set as for first side. If the blank is placed in the same place each time and it is symmetrical and the table is set in the same angle things should come out pretty straight.Doing it this way gives you fantastic control as it takes out the up and down movement you can get grinding by hand.You will go over the center line at the point area but you straighten this up when you do the second side by grinding as described above and pushing the bevil down so that the center line is straight again.Wish i could put pictures up, should be able to soon.Hope this is clear enough to give you an idear, it realy does work.
 
if you are talking about the bevels/flats:
if you are willing to do the extra work, i would mark your lines, grind almost to them, and then take it the rest of the way down by draw filing.

i'm still new to draw filing, but still, i seem to have better control with the proccess than by powered grinding.

nice seeing you here, i don't think i noticed before.
 
Thanks for the tips guys. I am having trouble getting the profile symetrical and haven't started the bevel part yet btw. That part should be fun!
 
try marking your profile out on the edge of a piece of sturdy, thick card-stock or the like, and cut along, so the blade can be butted against it as you profile. this will let you see where your curvature does not fit the specs you're shooting for. you can make your correction, check again, and repeat as needed.

there's probably terminology specifically for what i'm describing, but i'll be damned it i know what it is.
 
Also, instead of eyeballing it, you can take a sharpie and make reference marks as far as where and how much you need to take off to make the profile match up. You can get cheap profile guages at a variety of places to check your symetry. Something like this:

64252.JPEG


--nathan
 
I use a drawing first, trying to keep it as symetrical as possible. Then take mild steel and spray adhesive to attach the drawing. Find your center line and drill three holes in a row, this is best done on a milling machine so they are all perfectly straight. Grind to your profile line on one side only. Use the template on your 1084 to drill the 1/8"holes. The template is held to the 1084 with 1/8" dowel pins. Scribe the pattern on one side now flip the pattern and scribe the other side. Hope this helps.
 
Why not just mark the center on your manilla pattern, and mark the center of your bar stock, line 'em up, mark one edge of the pattern, then flip the pattern and mark the other edge, so both edges on the blank are marked with the same edge of the pattern? This should get you close at least, if you can grind to the line.
 
I cut out the shape on the manila folder. I got the 1084 an scribed a line right down the middle and now I have the reference points, which I didn't before. Now I can use the calipers to help measure the distances from the center. I kind of just winged the first one, but my Jedi powers failed me on that one. Thanks guys.
 
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