Dangerous Weapons? Or Just Functional Art Collectibles?

Knives will always be percieved by the masses as weapons. Why ?

Its the way the laws are written , its the way the media portrays knives.
All it takes is for a non-knife person to here or see what horror story with a knife , or a Cold Steel video , or something like a Dark Ops ad and that is what they carry in their mind.

Guns & Knives...both just tools or instruments if you will.

left alone , neither will bother anyone nor cause harm.

My thoughts...
We as the knife population can change the perception . How ? Being more discreet. I aint saying hide them , just use them more discreetly. Don't do the dramatic ninja draw when you need to merely open a package. Loose the shock factor. Portray it as a tool and perhaps people will again see it as such.

great thread , looking forward to seeing the discussions that come out of it.
 
I was watching an episode of "Shark", and there was heavy use of the term "Assault Knives" one more subliminal nail in the coffin of liberty. Its happening more and more.
 
Last year, I was flying from Texas to cali for a visit with Loveless. I checked my Knife case with my luggage. I requested that the case be inspected and sealed just as with a gun case. The TSA Agent said that Knives weren't weapons and that therefore he couldn't seal the case. Go figure.

I as him If i could then use the case as a carry on since Knives weren't weapons. Uuh? No, They are dangerous items.

Go figure!

On a side note, I get the I'm afraid of knives all the time from women. I like to ask, what do you use in the kitchen? the usual response is, "That' Different"! I guess it's all in the prespective.
 
RogerP said:
It's odd, you know. I would have thought the above to be a statement beyond meaningful debate.

Perhaps part of the message has to be that its okay to collect weapons.

Roger
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Ed made a valid point that most knives were users, not collectibles and most users are used as tools, not weapons. I would add that many (can't say most as I don't know) collectible knives are neither used as tools or weapons.

So the point is (not sure how relevant to my initial post) that though the general public including collectors perceive knives (custom or otherwise) as weapons and they could be used as such the fact is the vast majority are not used as weapons.

How many times have you used one of your knives, from your collection or otherwise as a weapon?

Whose debating it. Ed and I just stated fact.

How does it being OK or not to collect weapons even enter into what I said?
 
1. No
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. AGAINST

I am STRONGLY against gun control or any limitations of a citizens right to bear arms. Unfortunately, our legislative bodies fail to realize that laws are not heeded by criminals and all they are succeeding to do is make things more difficult (AND EXPENSIVE) for honest citizens.

Peter
 
anything that was an instrumentality in killing is a weapon. Screwdrivers, hammers, cars, scissors, duct tape, etc. I don't buy the design influencing intent with edged tools; kitchen and skinning knives killed more people than the Bowie ever will. Spine thickness and whether the gripping hand is blocked by a guard or a dropped edge is irrelevant.
 
Anything can be perceived as a dangerous weapon if used to inflict harm on someone. Outlaw sharpened pencils.
 
I'm agreeing with Joss completely. Too bad he edited out his words.

I'll tell you that 95% of people who I discuss my collecting and photography business are more than just a bit surprised and smirkingly shocked. Handmade collectible knives? Who'd a thunk!

Without question, I feel we all enjoy the subversive and symbolic sinister appeal of knives. Yes, they are a 'tool' and an inanimate instrument.

From the beginnings of time and even at their most useful moments NOW, the majority of useful tasks are designed to cut flesh--in some form or another. Hunters, skinners, daggers, tactical knives, bowies, etc.

There are three distinctions: A knife can be a defensive instrument, a tool to cut with, or an offensive instrument (read: weapon). Any of the above may involve bloodshed. The default prognosis is going to be that they are considered first an offensive instrument (which is a tool, one would argue, but one not as lenient as cutting cardboard boxes).

Let's define weapon. Wikipedia definition: A weapon is a tool employed to gain a tactical advantage over an adversary, usually by injury, defeat, or destruction.)

Every USA gun-carrying and law abiding citizen carries a defensive instrument. Yet guns can and will be misused as offensive instruments. The education continues...

It's a road paved with disappointments. I do my best to promote and explain the industry and the wonderful folks involved. Hollywood, and every newspaper will sensationalize knives and guns as a weapon. We are far outnumbered.

Let's do our best to educate otherwise.

Coop
 
hmm, that doesn't seem to be such a great definition. A pair of binoculars would give a tactical advantage. Looking at the definitions on dictionary.com, some mention instruments for defense. I wouldn't call body armor a weapon either.
I think of 'fighting' knives like handguns. You're supposed to be able to fight with them, but they aren't all that great at getting the job done. The guys with spears, rifles, and cruise missiles tend to win. IMO, the people who view knives as only weapons are the ones who have little education to weapons in general. Anything is dangerous in the hands of the determined.
 
SharpByCoop said:
I'm agreeing with Joss completely. Too bad he edited out his words.

I'll tell you that 95% of people who I discuss my collecting and photography business are more than just a bit surprised and smirkingly shocked. Handmade collectible knives? Who'd a thunk!

Without question, I feel we all enjoy the subversive and symbolic sinister appeal of knives. Yes, they are a 'tool' and an inanimate instrument.

From the beginnings of time and even at their most useful moments NOW, the majority of useful tasks are designed to cut flesh--in some form or another. Hunters, skinners, daggers, tactical knives, bowies, etc.

There are three distinctions: A knife can be a defensive instrument, a tool to cut with, or an offensive instrument (read: weapon). Any of the above may involve bloodshed. The default prognosis is going to be that they are considered first an offensive instrument (which is a tool, one would argue, but one not as lenient as cutting cardboard boxes).

Let's define weapon. Wikipedia definition: A weapon is a tool employed to gain a tactical advantage over an adversary, usually by injury, defeat, or destruction.)

Every USA gun-carrying and law abiding citizen carries a defensive instrument. Yet guns can and will be misused as offensive instruments. The education continues...

It's a road paved with disappointments. I do my best to promote and explain the industry and the wonderful folks involved. Hollywood, and every newspaper will sensationalize knives and guns as a weapon. We are far outnumbered.

Let's do our best to educate otherwise.

Coop
Click to expand...

I would also agree with the reaction you get about collecting knives Coop.

I have had people look at me as if I were deranged when I stated that I collect knives. :eek: Additionally, they think I am totally insane when I mention the prices knives I collect can cost (and my most expensive acquisitions are well under $1000).

Peter
 
peterinct said:
I would also agree with the reaction you get about collecting knives Coop.

I have had people look at me as if I were deranged when I stated that I collect knives. :eek: Additionally, they think I am totally insane when I mention the prices knives I collect can cost (and my most expensive acquisitions are well under $1000).

Peter
Click to expand...
I also agree on boths counts Peter.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Without question, I feel we all enjoy the subversive and symbolic sinister appeal of knives. Yes, they are a 'tool' and an inanimate instrument.



Coop
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I'm not sure how i feel about the aesthetic of the kind of knives that evoke what my mom would likely call a demonic image. Maybe because of my background but religious sensitve-types would probably associate the whole genre of art daggers as something used in "ritual sacrifices" by devil worshippers. It probably sends this kind of message to a majority who do not fit into an informed public, the peculiarities of knife collectors' interests.

Again harpihg on the example of "Cold Steel". The way this company promotes itself (in dvd), and being a vendor at Blade, this representation speaks louder than any disclaimer made. What, other than gratuitous violent images is the point of hacking up carcasses in motorcycle boots?

My 6 yr old son managed to get his own copy at Blade last year. Ofcourse he'll have to wait til he's 21 before he can see it. :)
David
 
Long time, no post on my end, but some things are far too important to us as collectors.:)

Here's what we're facing from the media, when it comes to knives: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gOblVzamBICHErE0NjO067NWBLogD908J2980. While the intentions of this student should seriously be considered, why does the fact he appears to be a young collector seemingly make him "more dangerous" in the eyes of the prosecutor? We're fighting a loosing battle when it comes to knives. And Ed hit it on the nose. Young urbanites have a totally different view of knives as solely being weapons...Hollyweird doesn't help either. How do we change it IF we can? Good question.

Prosecutors: Ind. student planned Columbine-like attack
By TOM COYNE – 1 day ago

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (AP) — A 16-year-old boy is accused of plotting an attack on his high school, prosecutors said Thursday, alleging that he discussed plans by e-mail with another person to carry out simultaneous "Columbine-like mass murders" in two states on Sept. 11, 2008.

Authorities detained the teen Tuesday on an initial charge of intimidation, St. Joseph County prosecutor Michael Dvorak said Thursday. His office was preparing charges of conspiracy to commit murder after authorities found more than 100 knives at his home, Dvorak said.
Authorities also found several illegal snakes at his home in Mishawaka, about 10 miles east of South Bend, Dvorak said. The boy was being held Thursday at a juvenile detention center.

A school officer investigating an unrelated threat at Penn High School discovered Internet postings in which the teen discussed his support for the Columbine shooters, Dvorak said, a reference to the 1999 massacre at a suburban Denver high school in which two students killed 12 classmates and a teacher before committing suicide.

School officials questioned the teen about his postings and learned he had exchanged e-mails Sunday with an unidentified person in which they discussed conducting "Columbine-like mass murders" at the same time on Sept. 11 at Penn and another location, Dvorak said.

Teresa Carroll, spokeswoman for the Penn-Harris-Madison School Corp., said the other location was in Ohio.

Dvorak declined to give any information about the person the teen corresponded with or what the person's intended target may have been.

The pair also wrote about researching how to obtain weapons and make explosive devices. The teenager, a freshman, asked the other person to help him obtain a TEC-DC9 9mm pistol, stating it would be "awesome" if he could use the same weapon used in the Columbine shootings, Dvorak said.

Police searched the student's locker, backpack, home and laptop computer and found notebooks in which he wrote about killing a large number of people. They found he had searched the Internet on Monday for how to make propane tank bombs and for a reference guide on how to make explosives and other dangerous devices, Dvorak said. The teen also searched for 9mm guns, he said.

A juvenile court hearing was scheduled for Friday to determine whether the teenager should remain in custody.

Meanwhile, prosecutors in Columbia, S.C., sought a mental evaluation for an 18-year-old accused of planning to bomb his high school.

Ryan Schallenberger should be examined to determine whether he understands the case against him or can help with his defense, federal prosecutors wrote in a motion filed in federal court.

The teenager is in the Chesterfield County jail. He was arrested April 19 and faces several state and federal charges, including attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction. That charge carries a possible life sentence if he is convicted.

Authorities have said Schallenberger's parents called police because he had ordered ammonium nitrate, which was used in the deadly Oklahoma City bombing in 1995.

Michael Meetze, Schallenberger's public defender, declined to comment Thursday.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Ed made a valid point that most knives were users, not collectibles and most users are used as tools, not weapons. I would add that many (can't say most as I don't know) collectible knives are neither used as tools or weapons.

So the point is (not sure how relevant to my initial post) that though the general public including collectors perceive knives (custom or otherwise) as weapons and they could be used as such the fact is the vast majority are not used as weapons.

How many times have you used one of your knives, from your collection or otherwise as a weapon?

Whose debating it. Ed and I just stated fact.

How does it being OK or not to collect weapons even enter into what I said?
Click to expand...

1. My reference throughout this thread at all times has not been to knives in general, but to Bowie knives. If you think that knife gained international fame from its use as a "tool", you are sadly misinformed.

2. I have never used used any of my bowies as a weapon - talk about a pointless observation. A collector of fine Katanas has a collection of weapons - beautifully crafted, artistically conceived and rendered, but weapons nonetheless. They are no less weapons for the fact that he has never cut someone in half with one. Follow?

Joss' points were spot on. He has chosen to edit them out and I will respect that.

Roger
 
A few points I think have been left out:

Most people have never been exposed to art knives- this obviously limits their view of what "knife collecting" would be.

It has been widely observed that our media these days, especially the "if it bleeds, it leads" attitude of the press, has engendered an atmosphere of fear. The constant playing up of the negative takes it's toll. Add in the fact that, at least in most urban/suburban areas, many people don't carry knives and haven't been exposed to a lot of casual knife carry or usage.

While these elements add fuel to the fire, the "match", I think, is a basic, primitive, instinctual knowledge that, if you have a knife and I don't, I'm at a disadvantage. It's even more easily seen if you're in a room and someone pulls out a gun- people immediately feel threatened, even when they know it's only cousin Frank, the off-duty cop showing his back-up piece to Uncle Mike, the retired cop. As said above "sheep fear teeth".

Background has so much to do with it. I work in an office environment where a good percentage of the men have come from field jobs where (even though it's technically not allowed) nearly everyone carries a knife clipped to their pocket. Many of these guys still carry a knife of some form or another- as we all know, it's hard to go without once you're used to having one. The people who did not come from that environment are always asking things like "Why do feel the need to have a weapon?"
 
Interesting that you bring up katanas. I think that, perhaps BECAUSE of the entertainment biz, the opinions on those have diverged. If you announced that you collected tradtional Japanese swords, some folks would look at you like you had an extra set of genitalia growing out of your forehead and shuffle their children out the room as quickly as their Birkenstocks would carry them. Others would think it was super cool.
My family always thought that my knife knittiness and particularly, my deisre to make them, was some form of OC offshoot. That is, until I actually made one that looked halfway decent. My mom was somewhat of an artist and my male reaqltives are all hunters and minor gun nuts, so once they saw that I could actually produce something, they changed their tune. I think that a great number of the "great unwashed masses" have no idea what you are talking about when you say "custom knife" and just assume that it is some Klingon or Freddy Kruger flesh slashing instrument straight out of Central Casting.
 
RogerP said:
1. My reference throughout this thread at all times has not been to knives in general, but to Bowie knives. If you think that knife gained international fame from its use as a "tool", you are sadly misinformed.

2. I have never used used any of my bowies as a weapon - talk about a pointless observation. A collector of fine Katanas has a collection of weapons - beautifully crafted, artistically conceived and rendered, but weapons nonetheless. They are no less weapons for the fact that he has never cut someone in half with one. Follow?

Joss' points were spot on. He has chosen to edit them out and I will respect that.

Roger
Click to expand...

Well that may be, however everyone else here is discussing knives in general as this is much larger than just a Bowie issue. Evidently you are the one that doesn't follow.
I'm not going to respond to any more of your post, so write what ever you want.

Absolutely un-believable :confused:
 
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