dangers of going past "critical temp"

I'll trade you my forge for that anvil?.... lol.

I think you are limited to such a small cavity in that forge, bud. That is definately a "forging" forge.... not designed for accurate HT or adaptation to do so.
 
One thing I will say is Don't use galvanized pipe.. you don't want those fumes or crappola on your blades.
 
I'll trade you my forge for that anvil?.... lol.

I think you are limited to such a small cavity in that forge, bud. That is definately a "forging" forge.... not designed for accurate HT or adaptation to do so.

Anvil was only $100, got it from an uncle. Can you explain more about my limitations. If I can can the blade to temp what should it matter the size? Any advice is appreciated.
 
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Your limitations are with regard to temperature control. The cavity is very small(especially the height) and the burner is pointed straight down with a concentrated flame hitting the floor(as evident by the mark in the pic). That doesn't leave much room for a mufflepipe-type baffle to spread the heat out. Your forge is perfect for heating isolated portions of the steel for forging. Not that it can't be used for heat treat... it would just be tricky.... like using a cutting torch to light birthday cake candles.:D:thumbup:
 
If I were heat treating with that forge, here's what I'd do. First, I'd turn the lights down low. Then I'd put on some mood music. Barry White or something would be ideal. Then I'd fire up the forge and adjust the flame down a bit, and then, with the blade held firmly in a pair of tongs place it into the forge. I'd heat the thickest part of the blade first (most likely the ricasso area) and gradually bring the whole blade up to a uniform temperature by moving it back and forth under the flame, being very careful not to overheat the tip. With the low ambient light it's much easier to see the color, and as has been mentioned several times already, good temperature control is very, well, critical :D Anyway take your time bringing it up to temperature, and watch closely for decalescence (when it looks like shadows are moving across / through the steel). That's your first indication that the steel is austenizing. Check the steel with a magnet, and if it is indeed non magnetic, then you know you're up to temp. Put it back in the forge for a bit and keep it at that temp but don't get it hotter (or brighter!). Remember to keep moving it around and keep the color / temperature uniform. After an adequate soak, quench it in your oil.

You won't be able to achieve as precise or consistent results as you could with better equipment but you will be able to successfully heat treat a blade. As you gain experience you'll be able to judge color more accurately and become more proficient at heat treating. Also be sure to test your blades to make sure they've been heat treated properly, and occasionally test one or two to destruction so you can really dial it in.

Remember, 100 years ago bladesmiths didn't have high grade steels with known alloying elements; they didn't have electric kilns or salt-pots or multi-burner heat-treat forges with digital readout thermometers; they didn't have specially formulated quenching oils... but they did make very good knives. Maybe not incredibly fantastic super high performance knives, but very good knives nonetheless. Remember, good equipment is wonderful to have, but it's no substitute for knowledge and experience.
 
OT a bit, but 1084 is supposed to be more forgiving in terms of the critical temperature correct? Also, since I'm just going to be using a regular old fire, how do you tell the temperature?
 
Minibear I think Wulf's info still applies to a charcoal forge, you want to get it to the transformation range and hold it there without going past it very far. You have to approximate, use color, magnets, and keep the blade moving back and forth so the heat is even.. remember the tip will heat faster than the rest, so pay special attention that.
 
The best way to avoid hotspots with a forge like that is to use a muffle of some sort. Essentially a pipe that you run through the center and you put your blade in the pipe so that you avoid forge hotspots and the flame directly hitting the blade.
 
The best way to avoid hotspots with a forge like that is to use a muffle of some sort. Essentially a pipe that you run through the center and you put your blade in the pipe so that you avoid forge hotspots and the flame directly hitting the blade.

I don't think a muffle pipe will work in that forge, Justin..... the cavity is too small and the flame from the burner won't have enough room to burn properly.
 
What would be the characteristics of a steel (say a 1095 for carbon and O1 for tool) that has been treated (read soaked) at a temp that was too high? Assuming the temper was done properly...
 
What would be the characteristics of a steel (say a 1095 for carbon and O1 for tool) that has been treated (read soaked) at a temp that was too high? Assuming the temper was done properly...

"Snappy" and "chippy" come to mind. Tempering does not counteract grain growth. The only thing that properly addresses oversized grain is thermal cycling past critical.
 
What would be the characteristics of a steel (say a 1095 for carbon and O1 for tool) that has been treated (read soaked) at a temp that was too high? Assuming the temper was done properly...

Having over heated my share of O1 blades, they will also warp like crazy. My first had a twist in it that was nearly 70 degrees. Over heated blades will also crack more frequently.
 
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