DarkOPs StratoFighter

brownie0486

brownie0486

Joined
Apr 6, 2003
Messages
1,913
I received the 10th StratoFighter from the first run a week ago. It has the serial number of RB0486 on the spine of the glass breaker, which I asked for. The knife came with a letter of authenticity stating that knife was assigned to me in their records.

There has been much pontification and opinions on the forums, particularly this forum, about these knives being nothing but knockoff copies of the ER products.

The Strato certainly has some lineage in the MPC. To my thinking it is not a knockoff though. I would describe it as more like an upgraded, refined, redesign on a theme. The upgrades over the MPC are numerous and were warranted IMO as the MPC was nice but could stand much improvement for it's intended purposes. The Strato has taken that theme to a new level.

The term "knock off" to my thinking, connotates a product that is inferior, of less value, something not made as well. That does not describe the StratoFighter when compared to the ER MPC in the least.

The StatoFighter is a BIG KNIFE open or closed. It made my Chinook2 [which I have carried for over a year] look small in a side-by-side comparison.

The edge was sharp but not as sharp as I like to keep them. This is normal for me as very few knives have been as sharp from the factory as I want them. I put the edge to the Spyderco sharpmaker course stones. 4 light passes on each side brought it to what I call a "working" edge that was as sharp as I like them for the purpose of hard use.

The blade is 1/4" thick; this knife is not designed to slice tomatoes. It looks like it has something of a Moran convex edge that I've always liked as well. If it had an acute angled grind, it would defeat the purpose of the design for hard use. It would be the weak link in the knife, fortunately, that is not the case here. The blade is just a little shorter and thinner in dimensions than the MPC. I see no advantage or disadvantage to this though.

The quartz impregnated inserts in the handle are more than adequate at keeping sweaty, wet hands from slipping while working, something the ER MPC desperately needed [more grip ability] when I owned that knife.

The pocket clip was tight as hell. I could not get it onto my dungaree pocket after much effort. I have had to bend pocket clips on other knives before to loosen them some to give me the retention I want on the pocket.

I tried to bend the pocket clip by hand and it was nearly impossible to do. I went to the garage and got a length of twine that I slipped under the clip and then pulled outbound from the frame. This worked better and I had some minor success at loosening it enough to get it onto the pocket. This clip is STRONG [a good thing to have for this knifes intended use].

The inserts ate the inside of my pocket edge after inserting and withdrawing the knife 20-30 times over the course of the next half hour. I talked with Frank Miller about this over the phone and he told me to remove the clip, remove the insert under the clip and re-attach the clip. He stated that the clip is that tight so that when the knife is attached to a vest in combat it will not be lost. I certainly agree that the knife would not be lost under hard use the way the clip came from him.

I removed the quartz insert under the clip as suggested, not that hard to do actually, and it then was easier to insert and retract from the pants pocket.

While speaking with him, he also mentioned to make sure I loctited the pivot to the desired tension. When I checked the pivot, it was finger tight only. Good thing he told me to loctite it to the tension I desired when we spoke.

I did tighten the pivot with an allen wrench. Then it was too tight and the blade would not open at all. Thing is, I tightened it with very little tension. I backed it off and tightened it a few times to get the desired tension I wanted after putting blue loctite on the pivot threads, let it sit overnight and it has not loosened nor been an issue since.

While on the subject of the blade pivot, it appears to be of adequate size and not be a weak link in strength while locked open and potentially used for prying laterally or from edge to spine. The pivot also protrudes from the sides of the knife, unlike the MPC’s that is flush. A designed feature in the knife that increase it's lateral strength proportionally IMO. It is also about 2x the size of the MPC pivot to begin with, which should provide a lot more strength to lateral stresses as well.

While loctiting the pivot tension, I also loctited the cross bolt secondary safety/locking bar in position so it could not be accidentally engaged, which when in that mode prevents the blade from opening or closing, dependant on the position of the blade when activated.

I did this through experience with the ER MPC, which had engaged itself and locked the blade closed accidentally while sitting in the pocket. I do not know if the secondary lock on the Strato would have had the same issues and did want to find out as this knife is and will be carried full time.

That means it will go on search and rescues into the Superstition Mountains of Arizona with me. I feel confident that should I have to make an extended stay in the mountains overnight while searching for lost or downed/injured people, it is all the knife I'll need for any purpose that one might need a knife/pry bar/hatchet/digging instrument for.

I'm so confident that the StratoFighter will survive anything I'll likely put it through/need it for in a real world environment [the harsh Sonoran desert in this case] I have taken the sheathed straight blade off my rescue pack where it was strapped externally so I could access it without removing the pack off my back.

I no longer need to carry the extra weight of a straight blade along with a folder, and feel comfortable in not doing so, which was not the case while carrying the Chinook [which is still one hell of a strong knife].

One may wonder about the extra weight issue of a good supplemental straight folder here. Let me say that we carry 45 pound packs [minimum] into rescue operations of up to 10 miles on foot over mountains in excess of 6000 feet in heat that can exceed 115 degrees F. in the summer and every ounce of weight saved not carrying redundant or unnecessary equipment is that much more water I can carry for myself and those who are in trouble when we find them.

At times we may be inserted by DPS choppers to an area that is remote enough that we can't access by foot because of the terrain. When one is that far "in" without any support but the gear one takes with them until extraction, which could be 2-3 days, one needs to be able to rely on the equipment on them explicitly. The Strato brings my confidence level where a blade or worst-case pry bar may be necessary to new heights.

I would guess that getting up and over some of the rock cliffs, if I had to use the Strato as an emergency teton, shoving it into a crevice as far as I could, I could pull my full weight [182 pounds] up and could trust this knife not to snap and subsequently fall. Is it something I want to try? No!!! Is it something I think I can rely on if necessary? Yes!!! Is there any other folder I would consider in doing this? No!!! and I’ve owned many folders considered "strong" including many that are talked about here by others posters.

I would not want to be hanging 50 feet off the ground on a technical line from the DPS chopper and have to take the ER MPC out of the pocket for any reason. The chance of dropping it would be too great due to it's smooth slab sided surfaces and lack of finger grooves. Even with gloves on which are mandatory for any type of action like this, the StratoFighter will be much more secure in the hand due to the inserts and finger grooves. Could it still be dropped, of course, but the chance of doing so is greatly reduced by the design over the MPC ergonomics, a big plus where positive purchase is required or lose the tool you desperately need right then.

The glass breaker is more pointed and will certainly work as intended. It also has the advantage of being able to crack skulls if it used as a load fist for any reason. It could also be used to puncture heavy gauge drums due to its design, unlike the MPC. Many more uses with this design where puncturing objects is concerned with it. A good thing to have available and makes it more versatile than any glass breaker I'm aware of on any folder, including my large MOD CQD double edged law enforcement folder as well.

The grooves where the thumb gains purchase open or closed are very adequate. The dimensions, in circumference of the knife, at this juncture, are less than the MPC. I see no advantage or disadvantage here either, though it does "fit" my hand better. This may allow for a tighter grip that probably translates to more strength of the clenched fist around the knife under hard/heavy use and perhaps allowing one to better grip the knife. Again, a small difference between the two, but these little small [and some not so small] differences add up to a better designed knife and are more than the sum of their individual features in the overall use of the tool for it's intended purposes.

I've owned and still own some very strong folders. I like a big knife, one that can be relied on to get any job done and survive to be sharpened another day. Lots of folders are called "tactical" and are not really designed or intended for use under extreme conditions where life and death may hang in the balance. The Dark Operations StratoFighter is a tactical folder in the true sense of the term.

Everything about the StratoFighter screams tough, durable, reliable, and TACTICAL. The features of the StatoFighter are made with the operator who needs to rely on his equipment day in and day out in mind. One needs to have confidence in their equipment when the outcome in ones favor is part of the equation.

If I had a choice of any folding knife and I was heading to Hajji country in the box, this is the only tactical folder that would be going on my person. In my opinion, owning some of the "tactical" strong knives made today on the market, this is my only choice if I can only bring one folder with me to survive and make do under the harsh conditions of the desert.

Come to think of it, I live in that type of extremely harsh environ daily here in the Sonoran Desert here in the heart of Arizona. Not only do I live in the environ, I'm charged with rescuing people where theirs and my own survival are dependant on the choices one makes before finding themselves in trouble.

Forethought goes a long way out here to surviving. I'm happy to have the StratoFighter along at all times now. I know should the conditions get extreme and I need to rely on the equipment I have on my to survive, the StratoFighter will stand on it's own where many others "tactical" folders would give up the ghost in an extended stay in no mans land.

I waited a long time for this knife to arrive. I've heard the statements made about Frank Miller and his companies’ knives being knockoffs of the ER line of products. The StratoFighter is no knockoff of any knife if you consider knockoffs to be of less value and an inferior product.

The StratoFighter is THE "tactical" folder on the market today in my opinion. I'm always looking for the strongest, most reliable folder I can get my hands on. Until I find something better than what resides on my pocket right now, I won't carry anything else.

As mentioned before, there are some great folders to choose from on the market today. Many of them are strong in design and materials and will stand well on their own for the majority of people buying them. I happen to own a considerable amount of them myself.

The StratoFighter is the toughest folding knife for real world encounters of the worst kind I have had the pleasure of owning or own presently. I’ll be using it in real world harsh conditions. If it fails in anyway I’ll be sure to get back to everyone immediately.

Robin Brown
 
Hello,had a few questions;is it easy to open with the thumb studs?does the rear lock make one hand opening harder? also, it looks like the pocket clip is mounted down on the handle,does it stick out of the pocket a lot?how is the lockup & smoothness of the lock?is it bulky in the pocket,being so big?
 
Have you had a chance to disassemble the knife and check out the lock up between the lock bar and blade tang?
 
Does it cut well, does it have reasonable edge retention, and how much flex is there in the lock under lateral pressure?
 
goldie:

I'm not one who normally likes thumb studs, most are harder to manipulate than a spyder hole. The StratoFighters ambi-thumbstuds barely protrude from the handles width, but with the recesses that are cut into the handle where the studs rest while the blade is closed, there is plenty of stud for the thumb to get onto when opening. I checked it with gloves just now as I'll be wearing them while on searches [ mandatory with the rocks and cactus we run through ] and the studs are actually easier to open the blade WITH them on. Easier because the gloved thumb finds the stud real well do the the recesses and the gloved thumb can be aggressive and not worry about the stud rolling off the glove. Interesting.

The lock does not make it harder to open, it has no bearing on it whatsoever and I would not have thought about it if you had not asked, it is a non issue.

The knife does extend more than most from the pocket based on the clip location. It appears more so than some that might be the same as the handle is also THICK at the same time.

The lock is like butter and very smooth opening or closing. Lockup on the 1/4" thick blade sounds like someone racking a shotgun [ not really, but you get the idea. ] You know when it has locked, no question about it. Much louder and more solid than even my Chinook was.

It is not bulky in the pocket until you sit down. Up and about, it doesn't get noticed. Sitting, Squatting, etc it does get noticed as it is thick and sticks out of the pocket quiote a bit.

Chris: No I haven't. I don't take my knives apart.

djolney: It cuts well for what I have used it for so far. That has been a piece of aluminum shed from the tack room. Normally I would have gone to get the hacksaw to take it off but it was a good test to see what it would do on light sheet aluminum. The edge was not damaged at all, but with the grind on it and how thick the blade is, I didn't expect problems on such a ligtweight task.

I haven't checked lateral stresses on the blade yet, that will come when on a rescue most likely. There is no blade play laterally whatsoever, but I did tighten the pivot to a solid position in anticipation of having to laterally stress the blade in the field.

Robin Brown
 
brownie0486 said:
Lockup on the 1/4" thick blade sounds like someone racking a shotgun [ not really, but you get the idea. ] You know when it has locked, no question about it. Much louder and more solid than even my Chinook was.
Click to expand...
I don't think the sound of the lock matters much. On a hard-use folder like this, you need a very positive engagement between lock bar and blade tang.

I know you've seen that other thread recently, showing the innards of another DarkOps folder; the tang slot and lock bar were both terribly rounded, which on a lockback is a recipe for disaster (or at least stitches). After seeing that, the first thing I'd do after purchasing a DarkOps folder is take it apart and check the lock engagement, before risking my digits on it!! :eek:

Have you tried a simple spine-whack test on it yet, at least?
 
brownie0486 said:
I haven't checked lateral stresses on the blade yet, that will come when on a rescue most likely.
Click to expand...

If the heat treat is off, or there is a defect in the steel, the blade can snap trivially when loaded, I have seen this happen personally on high end customs.

In regards to the handle, I have used a Fulcrum IID and it has issues which the above looks to have dealth with, specifically the handle a little less boxy and more textures for comfort/retention.

Nice point about the ability of the lock to self-engage and prevent opening, for various tactical uses that would obviously be problematic.

In regards to the grind, that is just overkill though, even for the heaviest of uses you don't need a *sabre* grind on 1/4" steel of that length, even 3/16" flat ground blades can take 220 lbs easily, I have seen chin ups done of blades.

Unless you want the weight of the blade for something, the knife would be more more effective with a thinner cross section.

Nice to see a review that wasn't pre-biased against Dark Ops, though as noted I would be curious about the lock based on the above mentioned thread.


-Cliff
 
brownie0486 said:
I've heard the statements made about Frank Miller and his companies’ knives being knockoffs of the ER line of products. The StratoFighter is no knockoff of any knife if you consider knockoffs to be of less value and an inferior product.
Click to expand...

Nope, I consider it a knock off anytime someone copies the basic design from another company without their permission. No reason it has to be an inferior product, just inferior people making them IMO.



You failed to cover the most pressing issue though, do the strategically placed blood grooves control blood spray in covert deanimation activities?

Pardon me while I covertly deanimate someone now:rolleyes:
 
Gryffin:

The tang slot and lockbar on mine are not rounded at all.

The picture of the lockbar in that other photo with the blade open shows it resting quite a bit above the frame. Mine sits just below flush and is obviously well seated when the blade is opened and locked.

Spine whack-- I just took it to the garage, put a linesmans glove on, set a piece of plywood on the tailgate of my truck and delivered a half dozen "hard as I could" blows to the back of the blade while it was locked open without any release of the lock. The cross bolt safety is loctited and I did not engage it during the test.

I looked at the locking engagements afterwards and I see no rounding of either the lockbar or the tang slot now either.

Cliff:

"If the heat treat is off, or there is a defect in the steel, the blade can snap trivially when loaded, I have seen this happen personally on high end customs."

I won't know that until it happens but you are correct, any knife can have defects in the steel or the heat treat can be less than optimal for the particular steel with resultant problems.

slide13"

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to the StratoFighter being a knockoff of the ER MPC. Nothing I say will change your mind so we don't need to go there.

As to the comment about Franks character, your comments show a bias in your opinion of the product that extends to him as a person. Of course you are still entitled to that opinion.

Robin Brown
 
brownie0486 said:
I won't know that until it happens ...
Click to expand...

Yes, which is why I would advocate not waiting until you need it, if it breaks when you viced it a little, or tested it in your backyard on a stump it is one thing, if it breaks when you actually were standing on it for some reason in an emergency situation it is another.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

Good idea to test it before I need it. I have a Palo Verde stump down back near the wash, think I'll go try it out today.

I would not rely on it [ laterally stressed ] unless I could get at least 80% of the blade into a crevice. The stump may not allow that, but I'll work on it.

Robin Brown
 
hi,
I have handle the Stratofighter in a recent Paris Blade Show.

I should admit that it's too heavy for any use i could have, but it is quite impressive folder.
I noted like you did that pocket clip will destroy any pant in couple of use due to the quartz insert under the clip.
I doubt that "the clip is that tight so that when the knife is attached to a vest in combat it will not be lost" but most probably there is a misconception in it. (otherwise, the soldier using it will have to change vest every two days...:D )
Anyway, in the one i have handle, the finish was quite good (but i have'nt open it neither done any test on it).

thanks for the review brownie0486
(by the way, how much does it weight, and would there be a big diff with straight knife?)
 
freddy1:

The official weight is 8.61 ounces [ a little over half a pound ].

I've handed it to a dozen or so people so far.

Half immediately think it is heavy, the other half think it is light. Both views based on their perception when they saw the size of it. It sits in my pocket unnoticed all day, but needs to be adjusted in the pocket when sitting. It's becoming second nature to adjust it like the 9.5 ich Covington Bowie I carry on the waist which needs to be repositioned as well.

I try to carry a heavy, hard use folder at all times in my pocket [ where I live it can make the difference ]. I don't take the Bowie into the mountains on rescues, too much gear to worry about as it is.

I replaced the straight blade on the pack with a Swiss Army Multitool yesterday which weighs more than the straight knife I had attached to it, but I can't see carrying all three and the Strato will serve well along with the multitool.

Robin Brown
 
I hope this guy doesnt need his fingers for anything while out in the desert. :rolleyes:
That knife is a Mall-Ninja copy of the E.R. knife.

It is not at all an original design.

I wouldnt trust the lock, Period. Take it apart and see if it isnt pure crap like the other ones. If it is, send it back and Frank Miller will tell you he destroyed the knife while testing the lock and send you a new, equally crappy one.

Dork Ops is a joke.
 
have you had a chance to use it in deanimation activities, was there any problems with blood spray:)
 
Rat,


Did you see the spine whack test I performed this morning on the Strato?

As well, if it gets into something heavy enough to worry about it, I'll be engaging the secondary cross bolt lock as well for added insurance.

I've owned the MPC and now the Strato, have you? What do you base your opinion on when you say "see if it isnt pure crap like the other ones." That sounds like you have handled more than one, seen more than one, tested more than one, or seen tests of more than on, etc.

Please elaborate if you would for me.

I didn't say it was an original design, I said it obviously took it's lineage from the ER line. Do you know of anyone who has said anything to the contrary?

Robin Brown
 
brownie0486 said:
Gryffin:

slide13"

You are of course entitled to your opinion as to the StratoFighter being a knockoff of the ER MPC. Nothing I say will change your mind so we don't need to go there.

As to the comment about Franks character, your comments show a bias in your opinion of the product that extends to him as a person. Of course you are still entitled to that opinion.

Robin Brown
Click to expand...

Actually, it isn't my views about the person that color my oppinions about his product, it is vice versa. I have no idea who the guy is, but anyone who blatently copies another design and markets it the way he dose looses respect in my eyes. The ER line of folders were very unique, not derivative of anything else I had seen before. These are almost exact copies of those basic designs with just subtle changes to the cosmetics.

I also find their marketing strategy absurd to the point of being comedic. Who actually looked at their ad copy and thought the phrase "covert deanimation activities" was a good choice???
:rolleyes: :barf:

I'm sure the knives are of fine quality, I don't doubt that. But there are many fine knives out there, so many that I find it unnecessary to give my money to people who are trying to profit off other peoples designs while furthering the whole "mall ninja" mentality by talking about deanimation and blood spray.
 
Thanks for the info, seems like its a cool ,heavy duty folder. good luck with it.:)
 
slide13:

When a manufacturers advertising directly affects the performance, or lack therof of the folders I choose to carry I'll look at the advertising.

Until then, my only concerns are with the strengths or weaknesses of the overall package/knife which include, but are not limited to, design/ergonomics; materials used to their optimal capacity which would include the steel and heat treat as well as the handle materials, and the locking system used on that particular product which directly affects it's strength in various regards and has a direct bearing on what the knife will withstand in the real world environ I find myself working in.

I'm also not concerned with any lineage of a particular knife. In this case I have mentioned that the StratoFighter does have lineage in the ER MPC. I'm not aware of anyone having disputed this in the past including the manufacturer. I think to defend it would be in vain by anyone with common sense.

I've not only owned and carried, but have used both the MPC and now the StratoFighter. The MPC is a rugged knife, built for hard use and I have written my opinions for the record on that product/model in the past here as well.

I also had problems with a design feature with the MPC. That being its smooth handled aluminum and real world concerns of it being dropped directly relating to when ones hand/s were wet from persperation or other fluids. The handle could stand some more "grippability".

The StratoFighter resolves that issue in a big way with the upgraded handle design/ergonomics and the recessed inserts. In comparing the pivots on both, the StratoFighter has a pivot close to, if not two times the diameter of the MPC's pivot. Consequently, the StratoFighter should be able to take close to if not twice the lateral stresses on the pivot as the MPC, which is a bull in it's own right.

As some other well known makers of high end commercial folders specifically market their oversized pivots in their advertising, which translates to this strength issue, the StratoFighter would seem to excel in this regard over the MPC all things being equal.

It would appear that many are concerned more with the advertising campaign and the products lineage, than with the performance or lack thereof of DarkOPs products.

Advertising will not get me through the night at 3am, 8 miles into no mans land where my chosen equipment either performs satisfactorily and does what I need it to do or I should have left it home in a glass case on display as I made the wrong choice.

I'm only interested in it's performance/strengths when I leave the civilized world and enter into areas where I live that have not changed for 10,000 years and are still as dangerous today as back then.

Many people become lost and subsequently die in the wilderness out here only a few miles out into the desert. I take survival in the Sonoran desert seriously, having had to rescue some of these unfortunates who are not prepared and do not have the right equipment to get them out of bad situations.

If I lived in an urban jungle, I'm sure "many fine knives out there" would be up to the tasks at hand as you mention. I've owned and still own some very high end custom folders along with many high quality semi customs and production models.

This is the knife I'll carry into potential life and death situations in the real world. If it fails me for any reason, I'll be sure to let everyone know when, why and how if I make it home.

I don't hold Frank Miller or DarkOPs knives to any higher expectations with this StratoFighter than any other high end commercially produced folders I own.

Oh yes, someone mentioned/questioned price point for this knife. I've paid quite a bit more for a lot less many times. Price point does not enter into the equation for me where my arse is concerned. That goes for all the survival gear I carry, and not just this knife.

Goldie: You are welcome sir.

Robin Brown
 
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