Darrin Sanders Custom in Z-A11 Steel (CPM 10V) - Full Review

[Ankerson]

Got this in the other day for testing, this is my full battery of testing, rope cardboard and wood.

Specs:

OAL: 7 1/8"
Blade: 3 1/8"
Spine thickness .070"
Behind the edge: .020"
Edge geometry: 15 DPS
Edge Finish: 400 grit Congress Mold Master SIC.
Steel: Z-A11 (ZAPP) http://www.zapp.com/fileadmin/downl...-Alloys/Tooling-Alloys-Data-Sheet-Z-A11PM.pdf
HRC Hardness: 62.5 RC
Handle material: Iron Wood.

Started out with the rope cutting, 5/8" Manila Rope was cut until 20 LBS of down force was reached making draw cuts. The knife made 880 cuts until 20 LBS was reached and it would slice notebook paper after, did not notice any issues with the edge. Normal edge wear only.

Next up was the cardboard, the knife was sharpened before the cardboard stage, made 2,500 cuts or about 800 yards of cardboard was cut. It did very well and would still slice printer paper easy after the cardboard stage.

Last up was the wood cutting, made thick and thin slicing cuts in the wood, knife wasn't sharpened before this stage.

Showing how thin the blade is compared to an SAK.

Conclusion:


Very nice knife, excellent performance, excellent quality and fit and finish. Z-A11 steel is Zapp's version of CPM 10V and it performed as expected with excellent edge retention with no edge damage. The blade is very thin at .070" spine thickness so it was like cutting with a slip joint. Darrin Sanders did an excellent job and is a member here on BF so if you want a knife made feel free to contact him.

 

[Mike157]

Thank you for the review Jim. Your efforts are appreciated. Impressive results from the knife and an impressive knife from Darrin. Mike

 

[Chris Larrikin]

A very informative review and a very nice knife! I have admired Darrin's work on here for some time. It's always great to see member knife makers have their work tested and pass with flying colours.

 

[Ankerson]

Thank you for the review Jim. Your efforts are appreciated. Impressive results from the knife and an impressive knife from Darrin. Mike

Yes, he does excellent work for sure.

A very informative review and a very nice knife! I have admired Darrin's work on here for some time. It's always great to see member knife makers have their work tested and pass with flying colours.

I pushed it pretty hard to see what it could take under somewhat normal type use.

A11 is not as chipping or brittle as some would have people believe, it has a very high compression strength and pretty tough.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Jim, thanks for testing it and posting the review.

Mike & Chris, Thanks for the compliments.

I'd like to add that this was my first time working with A-11/10V and I learned a lot. I made 2 test blades. I kept one for testing myself and sent this one to Jim. I'm not real proud of the blade finish because I didn't realize how this stuff laughed a belts and absolutely killed them in short order. I have a better idea of how to properly finish this steel on future blades and will definitely do so. I will also grind them a little thinner if the main use of the blade calls for it. Considering that this was my first time working with this stuff I am pleased with how it turned out. Thanks again Jim.

 

[Ankerson]

Jim, thanks for testing it and posting the review.

Mike & Chris, Thanks for the compliments.

I'd like to add that this was my first time working with A-11/10V and I learned a lot. I made 2 test blades. I kept one for testing myself and sent this one to Jim. I'm not real proud of the blade finish because I didn't realize how this stuff laughed a belts and absolutely killed them in short order. I have a better idea of how to properly finish this steel on future blades and will definitely do so. I will also grind them a little thinner if the main use of the blade calls for it. Considering that this was my first time working with this stuff I am pleased with how it turned out. Thanks again Jim.

Yeah it will laugh at and kill anything that even resembles AO in a very short time.

I am very pleased with how it turned out and performed. :thumbup:

Got it all sharpened back up and whittling hair.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Yes, he does excellent work for sure.




I pushed it pretty hard to see what it could take under somewhat normal type use.

A11 is not as chipping or brittle as some would have people believe, it has a very high compression strength and pretty tough.

No, it is not as prone to chipping as I thought it would be. On the blade I kept, I drove it through a 3/8" x 1.5" piece of hard Maple with no damage. I then drove it through a 3/8" x 1.5" piece of Osage Orange/Bois D' Arc with no damage. Finally I drove it through a ~7/8" diameter piece of Axis deer antler and the only damage was a small shiny spot on the edge. There was no chipping or rolling and the blade would still shave. I was very pleased. I know this type of knife is not normally used for this type of cutting but I wanted to see if it would take it. I was both surprised and pleased with the results.

 

[Ankerson]

Beauty shots, taken this morning.

 

[Mike157]

Cleaned up very nicely! Thanks for the additional shots Jim. Mike

 

[Andy Lewis]

Me feel like caveman now. Me want new technology. Me sad...

Darrin nice knife as always. So what's more worn down, your grinders or Jim's hand! Crazy steel: I always thought of anything over 2% C would be considered cast iron (2.45% here). And 9.75% V. What?? I am guessing in my caveman way that the extra carbon gets sopped up by all that vanadium for carbide formation?

As I read it, this Z-A11 has about twice the toughness and 10X the wear resistance of either M2 or D2, even at a lower Rc. That's impressive. Crazy new world belongs to particle metallurgy it seems (and also the nice folks at DMT).

Will be interested to visit about your finishing experiences after you get some more thought/time in on it. Tough deal with that aspect it would seem. What belt did you end on here preHT?

So...I don't suppose there'd be any point to hitting this stuff with my hammers? Ug!

 

[Ankerson]

Andy,

This is the 3rd different A11 steel I have tested.

K294, CPM 10V and now Z-A11.

I love this stuff. :thumbup:

Jim

 

[Derek Bergstrom]

oh yeah! well my $5 folder cut most of the way through a pizza box before it got dull!
haha kidding aside thats a nice knife, ive been wanting to try A11 i shall aquire some someday

 

[Ankerson]

oh yeah! well my $5 folder cut most of the way through a pizza box before it got dull!
haha kidding aside thats a nice knife, ive been wanting to try A11 i shall aquire some someday

It will be a different experience.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Well hello my old caveman buddy.........I mean Andy. Yep, this stuff is amazing as far as edge holding but finishing is a b!tch. Sharpening is tough too but won't be needed often. I'm talking literally months maybe even years for an EDC knife cutting boxes, letters, rope, string, etc.. I'm pretty sure you're right about a large percentage of the carbon being locked up in carbides.
I kinda outsmarted myself on the pre-H/T finishing and it made finishing afterward much harder than it would normally be. Give me a call when you have a few minutes to spare and I'll tell you about it. We need to have a chat anyway.

 

[Rhinoknives1]

Darrin,
Great looking little working knife.

That's what I love to make and see are REAL Working knives for kitchen or field! I'll pass on the mirror polished enlayed and jeweled closet queens. I appreciate the craftsmanship and the look of high end stuff for a few minutes and then I'm back to wanting to see a knife that you can use hard all day!

Ankerson,
Thanks for the review and Darrin, Thanks for making such a cool little work horse!

And I LOVE that Ironwood!

 

[Ankerson]

Darrin,
Great looking little working knife.

That's what I love to make and see are REAL Working knives for kitchen or field! I'll pass on the mirror polished enlayed and jeweled closet queens. I appreciate the craftsmanship and the look of high end stuff for a few minutes and then I'm back to wanting to see a knife that you can use hard all day!

Ankerson,
Thanks for the review and Darrin, Thanks for making such a cool little work horse!

And I LOVE that Ironwood!

It was a lot of work, but well worth it.

 

[sodak]

Jim, thanks for testing it and posting the review.

Mike & Chris, Thanks for the compliments.

I'd like to add that this was my first time working with A-11/10V and I learned a lot. I made 2 test blades. I kept one for testing myself and sent this one to Jim. I'm not real proud of the blade finish because I didn't realize how this stuff laughed a belts and absolutely killed them in short order. I have a better idea of how to properly finish this steel on future blades and will definitely do so. I will also grind them a little thinner if the main use of the blade calls for it. Considering that this was my first time working with this stuff I am pleased with how it turned out. Thanks again Jim.

Nice! It did great, didn't it? There might be a couple of us who value performance over looks (although it looks fine to me).

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Laurence & Sodak- thanks for the compliments. I don't mind a low grit finish (220X) on a working knife, I find that they are actually better than a higher grit finish because scratches don't stand out as bad. However, they don't show up in the pics well but this blade but this blade had a couple of uneven spots. The only reason I let it leave the shop in that condition was because it was a test blade and I was tired of killing belts at an astounding rate. My next order of abrasives will enable me to solve that problem.

 

[Ankerson]

Laurence & Sodak- thanks for the compliments. I don't mind a low grit finish (220X) on a working knife, I find that they are actually better than a higher grit finish because scratches don't stand out as bad. However, they don't show up in the pics well but this blade but this blade had a couple of uneven spots. The only reason I let it leave the shop in that condition was because it was a test blade and I was tired of killing belts at an astounding rate. My next order of abrasives will enable me to solve that problem.

It was my skills with the camera.......

But really they don't show up now after all the testing unless you look really good and at the right angle.

As you are starting to find out, it doesn't get any better than A11, not really, but it's not easy to work with...

It's very fine grained and more than reasonably tough with a VERY high compression strength, combine that with the extreme wear resistance and you are at the top of the pile of performance.

Some of the stuff I did with this blade on the wood was over the top as it's as thin or thinner than most slip joints.

 

[BITEME]

Wow love the test ,love that little slicer-Thanks Darrin & Ankerson.