Dealers: What's the deal?

adrock1978

adrock1978

Joined
May 30, 2009
Messages
2,538
I've been around the Busse BF forum and exchange section long enough to notice a few things I don't quite understand. My questions shouldn't imply anything negative, I just don't know one way or another.

1.)Why is there a "Dealer" section and an Individual section in the exchange, yet some members with Dealer tags can sell in the individual section?

2.)Why do some dealers have links within their for-sale threads leading to other for-sale threads that aren't always within the section the knife being sold should be found? This really screws up the search feature. You search SFNO and a game warden thread comes up with a link to SFNOs...

3.) Lastly, why is there such a lack of consistency between the prices of brand new knives that came off tables of recent shows that originally all had the same price? Obviously they can set whatever price they want, but they all go through the same process to get the knife from Busse's hands to ours. Why the huge mark ups from some dealers, and then more "fair" prices from others?

Also... it really drives me crazy when people remove the asking price after a knife is sold. How are people supposed to determine going rate or fair asking prices? I mean... if you over inflate a knife price, and someone buys it... so be it. Why hide the price?
 
1) Becuase Busse knives, like Buck knives, holds a particular place in the sales forums. Both companies produced such a large quantity of threads that they were isolated to their own subforums to reduce clutter for those buyers who were looking for non-busse items. Dealers spend the most money towards keeping bladeforums alive with their larger account fee's, so it's in the interest of the forums to at least give them some concessions in being able to sell here. The dealer forums do not get as good of a response as the subforums, there are at least 2 dealers who deal almost exclusively in busse kin knives, to ask them to only sell in the dealer section isolates their sale threads and reduces the likelihood that they will continue to pay dealer fee's to maintain their status and ability to deal here.

2) because of the newer thread format. Threads no longer bump in a reliable manner, I still don't entirely understand how it works. I think the thread bumps after x number of days if a response is present (it might be 5 days, maybe 7, maybe 14, my threads weren't bumping in a way that seemed reliable). Needless to say, this is frustrating to people who want to sell their knives quickly or at least stay on the first two or three pages of the sales forum. One method of acheiving this is to consolidate and move your stock to a new thread. If you are selling 30 different models and a total of 200 knives in your stock, it can be difficult to structure your sale pages to include all of them and have it be intuitive to the buyers. At some point it just looks like a big dog pile of pics and models with no organization. By adding links to your other threads at the bottom of your page, it can make it easier to search for threads that are dedicated to only one model. The biggest problem here is that it's hard to update all of your old threads, so that a gamewarden sale page that has links to your NMFBM sale page will continue to come up in the search results. The only suggestion I can give here is ignore all posts by known dealers and you will be able to pan/scan the search results a lot easier. If you are looking for a dealer specific thread, find one of their newest threads and look at the links at the bottom, or email/private message them directly.

3) Prices can be looked at from 4 different positions:
1 - msrp
2 - how much money you have into it
3 - what will sell the fastest/lowest price on the market
4 - the maximum profit while still being likely to actually sell
Most people start with msrp as their pricing guide, but that can be difficult to find for certain models. So they scan the pages to find the average price. From there they look at options 2-4. If you want to sell it fast, you price it as low as possible. If you want to break even, you include everything you have into it including shipping costs. If you shipped it to a sheath maker and bought the sheath, that might be msrp+14.95$ shipping+20$ shipping to sheath maker+60$ sheath+ another 20$ shipping. That's 114.95$ above msrp and it might seem like a lot, but that is exactly what the seller will have spent to get that knife to you. If you did what he did, you'd spend 100$ above msrp regardless of what other people are selling it for. The last option is to try to get as much profit as possible. This is where the biggest price discrepancies come from, people trying to move stock at the bottom of the market price and those looking to make something on the sale (say 450$ for a nmfbm, on which they loose 150$, and 900$ at the top making for a profit of 150-300$, total discrepancy of 450$ (2x lowest price)). The better your financial situation, the more likely you are to be able to leave a knife up at a profit based price.

There are different ways of looking at it as a buyer as well. "I want to spend as little as possible, I don't care what msrp was" or "I really want this knife and have the disposable income to spend" or "I need this exact set of features. If I need to spend extra for it, so be it." or "OMG I NEED THIS KNIFE RIGHT NOW". All valid positions, but each one will result in a very different emotional response to the various methods that sellers use to price their knives.
 
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1 - I don't know.
2 - I dont know.
3 - good question...

I agree about leaving the asking price. It would be nice to reference if you are getting a good price or paying too much.

I would like to know about this too
 
5) Sale prices are removed for a variety of reasons. such as:
"I don't want to leave it up, it's my thread I'll do what I want."
"I sold this well below what it was worth because I needed the money, I don't want to screw others into dropping their prices this low thinking this is market value right now" (see #3 on pricing methods)
"I don't want to leave a record of prices so that in the future when I price my models for a profit people will be less likely to list examples of what they perceive as 'fair market value' in an effort to get me to lower my prices"
"I see no reason to keep it up, I don't care what prices are. If I want the knife I'll pay the price available if I think it's worth it."
 
Last Visible Canary said:
5) Sale prices are removed for a variety of reasons. such as:
"I don't want to leave it up, it's my thread I'll do what I want."
"I sold this well below what it was worth because I needed the money, I don't want to screw others into dropping their prices this low thinking this is market value right now" (see #3 on pricing methods)
"I don't want to leave a record of prices so that in the future when I price my models for a profit people will be less likely to list examples of what they perceive as 'fair market value' in an effort to get me to lower my prices"
"I see no reason to keep it up, I don't care what prices are. If I want the knife I'll pay the price available if I think it's worth it."
Click to expand...

Add one more. The buyer requests it be removed then flips it in time at huge profit.
 
Great questions. Very interested in others opinions regarding this topic!
 
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However, threads on this topic always seems to slide south in a hurry.

THIS time, in hopes of a better result for this thread, I will slip in an early warning before it has a chance to turn ugly. This is not intended toward any post(s) made here above mine. :thumbup:

Since the posts on this thread are good questions and LVC has posted some great replies that address these raised questions, this thread will remain open so long as it is a civilized and informative discussion. :)
But...this thread will not be allowed to devolve into a "dogpile on the Dealer(s)" or other type of negative thread like so many other similar threads have gone before. For those reading this thread... If you have nothing constructive to add here, then I suggest that you don't add anything. Anyone who decides to drag it down will not appreciate the response from myself or the other Busse mods.

Keep it on topic, keep it positive, keep it constructive, and keep it clean, please! :):)

Thank you.
 
gimmejr said:
There are a few sellers that sell in the Busse forum that arent labeled as a dealer but probably should be.




.
Click to expand...

Gimmejr,

Best thing to do about this is to report their threads and bring them to Spark's attention. :)
 
Davor said:
Some of the markups from the dealers are around $100 from the company price tag.
Click to expand...

Your being way too modest. Its the American way, so you wont here me rant about it. At some point, there may be a blade I am willing to pay 200 more then what the person just paid for it at the show or at a ganza-usually not though. Its a tough call though and I do see both sides... there is a need for some of the bigger dealers. They are able to supply the masses with a variety at all times. Not just one safe queen someone decides to sell because their electric is about to be turned off... so I am not a hater- but it is tough sometimes when you got 2nds on a blade by 5 mins, and then a week later- you see that very blade for sale for 150.00 more. That's when its a slap in the face and not very professional. Nothing cool about trolling the forums 24/7 and reselling everything thats a steal. If your going to a show though or you scored big on a ganza and want to make some money for your time and effort-that's a little more palatable. For whatever reason, there is a difference. All and all, dealers wouldn't be dealers- if there wasn't a steady demand for their wares. One aspect just seems a little more professional then the other though.
 
Davor said:
Some of the markups from the dealers are around $100 from the company price tag.
Click to expand...

Not helpful, nor a constructive reply.

But since you posted it...

On another discussion forum, I once read a WTB that went something like this:
"Looking to buy a (not Busse) knife without getting raped."

To which a reply from a member who read the WTB stated:
"It's not rape if you say YES."

...Meaning that it takes 2 to make a deal. If you decide that you want a specific knife NOW and don't have the patience to wait for the same knife at a lower price, then so be it.

Some folks want a specific knife now, and are willing to pay whatever to possess it.
Others are willing to wait patiently for a better price, even if that wait is a long one.

In either case, nobody is forcing a Buyer to make the decision. :)

...Which is what my sig line is about. "It's your dough... Get "X" smart! A little research goes a long way".
Know what you're buying. Do your homework, make an informed decision, whether it be to grab it now for whatever the price is, or wait it out in hopes of getting it later maybe for less...and that isn't a guarantee.
As a Buyer, if you make an impulse buy, and wind up having buyer's remorse, you have no one to blame but yourself. Or, if you pass on a sale and later realize that no others are going for less or there are no others and so you wind up having regrets on passing it up, then you have no one to blame but yourself. :)
 
For the record, if anyone ever sees this (little) green guy do something that upsets you, ya better have enough marbles to come say something. As much as I like the money's, I LOVE honor and integrity so please dont judge too much.

ps great last post CR33 and Jaxx.
 
LMT66 said:
Add one more. The buyer requests it be removed then flips it in time at huge profit.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is for example that listing you just quoted in the exchange. That knife is very common and worth less then the MSRP, so next time someone has one listed, if I want it, I should offer less then the ornigal MSRP right?
Thanks for saving that for the rest of us.
 
I don't have anything against the dealers. I wish that the show system was set-up a bit differently, however.

I'd like to see some of the show knives knives offered online during the duration of the shows that Busse attends, and perhaps an order limit on these models. This would give people that can't attend or get a proxy a bit of a chance to get a knife at show prices.
 
I'm not questioning whether or not dealers are necessary. Lets keep this on track. My thread, my questions. :D

LVC, I think you have good logical answers to the first two questions. That makes sense. I'd have to disagree with your third and fourth answers. In question 3 I'm referring specifically to knives which are fresh off the table, or have had one owner (the dealer). Besides, if we added all the money put into every knife onto the cost of the knife by the time it reaches my hands, where do you draw the line? Most knives have had multiple owners. I wouldnt be expected to pay the price of shipping, for every time a knife changed owner, or got a new sheath.

I'm talking new knives that sat next to each other on a table one day and in two seperate dealers hands the next.

As for my fourth question; (not necessarily pertaining to new knives) it seems all those scenarios are still possible/avoidable regardless of leaving the price up there. I think the most logical approach is "buyer beware". Generally, you can tell a fire sale thread, even without prices. Typically a seller will say "My electric is off, gotta move these knives" and its obvious, price or not, that its not typical market value.

As far as leaving record... if you're going to sell a knife for a higher value than you bought it for, or higher than what you sold the same one for last month you should expect that your buyers are doing their homework and will find out anyway. It just seems deceitful in a unintentional way. I bought a Force One in 09 for $500 and sold it last summer for $700. I didnt attemp to have the price removed from the sale thread I got it from and if my buyer used that thread to lower my price, I'd say take it or leave it. If it didnt sell, my bad... but it did, so Yay for me.

It's almost like you're doing a greater disservice to us all by removing prices. It keeps things vague and opens the door to greater inflation.
 
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