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Dealing with the Zoning board

R

RobertHankins

Joined
Jun 10, 2001
Messages
1,385
As a group knifemakers are a pretty creative group of people.
Anybody else ran into this senario?
While trying to get a City business lic. the other day I am being told what I do is Manufacturing and can't be licensed as a Home based Business.

They say Hobby...fine...Business no way....

Any creative minds out there that can help out?
 
I don't know much about your deal, but don't ever tell your homeowners policy holders what you do. I tried to add my shop equipment on to my policy, at their suggestion, and three days later, my homeowners policy was cancelled by one of the underwriters. Said they did not want to be responsible for weapons makers liability. I had a hard time getting insured after being cancelled. I finally did, with another company,but they specifically won't cover any tools. Insurance companys are leeches. They suck, big time.:mad: :rolleyes: :barf:
 
I heard this somewhere, don't call your shop a shop, which connotes manufacturing but call it a studio instead. You know, like an artists studio, artists work out of their homes all of the time. Think it would help?
 
First of how is your neighborhood zoned is rural/residential,or resedential? Generally speaking the cannot deny you a licence based on what you make. I agree with the art studio,and artist equipment(tools). Why a city licence versus a state,department of revenue licence. Most home based bussness cant actually have signage or deal with customers in person at there resedence,theres exception though, message therapists, phsycics, etc. But i would say to offical, that your an artist creating small household ornaments, and utincils. Dont deal with the city there way greedy, deal with the department of revenue(state level licencing and taxation entity) And as far as the propery insurance the equipment is for hobby use. And usually theyll insure anything if you exclusive to them,ie: car, home, campers, flood/fire and so on, Make sure if you gey an inspection you got, fire extinguishers, first aid kit, a shop phone with a lisy of emergency numbers and perhaps a smoke/fire detector, carbon monixide detector, And no propane tanks indoors, and make the place clean...
 
A lot of times it has to do with the way you say it. When I got my license, I didn't use the words "knife", "knifemaker", or "bladesmith". When asked what kind of business I had, I said "cutlery". I guess the *soft* word "cutlery" brings visions of a cute little paring knife like grandma used when she made one of those great apple pies.

Comedian, George Carlin touched on the interesting twist of words years ago, where you can take two words that mean the same thing, yet they conger up two different visions. For an example he compared the facial hair on Communist leader, Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, as opposed to the facial hair on lovable cowboy sidekick of Roy Rogers, Gabby Hayes.

He said Lenin had a BEARD. Gabby Hayes had *whiskers*. :D

Anyway, another thing that helped with the Zoning Board was to make it clear that this is not an industrial endeavor where products were mass produced, but rather a small one man shop, where work was commissioned like art work, and made one at a time by hand. Again, it was one those games with words to force the listener to see a harmless and positive image. [ Oh, how nice -- Grandma's paring knife, commissioned like art, one at a time by hand ]

One thing that was important to make clear was that this business was not a store where shelves would be stocked with products and the masses would come to park and shop. I explained that 99% of my "commissioned works" (fancy, artistic words again) were coordinated via the Internet.
 
When I am pressed to describe myself to non knife people I tell them that I am a sculptor working in metal and mixed media producing functional art.
 
Originally posted by george tichbourne
When I am pressed to describe myself to non knife people I tell them that I am a sculptor working in metal and mixed media producing functional art.
Click to expand...
See Robert? You've got to learn to B.S. your way through like we have. :D

Tell them what they want to hear, in words that make them comfortable. Don't offer any information that isn't necessary. Handle it like a diplomat.

Diplomat - One who can tell you to go to Hell in such a way that you are actually looking forward to the trip.
 
Saying as little as possible, B.S'ing when you have to say something and moving to the sticks are definately the operatives here. Years ago I learned my lesson by stupidly saying to the folks selling me insurance that yes, I sometimes use my car for business ..result? 50% premium increase.

I am always a hobbiest/artist who like to dabble in making tools for carpenters, whittlers or, if you like to be too clever for your own good, tools for on-the-spot taxidermists.

Bob
 
My wife has her kiln, etc insured, had no problem with the insurance agent, but then it is a "pottery studio." Very warm fuzzy friendly feeling thing. DONt tell em about propane, heavy metals, free silica, etc. The Propane co made her sign all sorts of releases before they would lay the underground line to the kiln, but they had dealt with potters before and knew all about it.
 
downtown where i live in soviet monica if you metion the word manufactoring or make! you get shut down. the is a guy that makes all of that body piecing stuff rings,posts and other strange things. he has 20 mexicans in the back doing deburring and polishing. he calls it THE GOOD ART STUDIO!
 
These fine suggestions should not be classified as BS, Robert.

Technically it is known as newspeak (as defined by Orwell's 1984). It is a process employed by all recent government officals. With it they can say many things, making you believe that you heard what you wanted to hear.

Therefore, use words that convey a meaning that they want to hear, without actually saying anything at all.

"Art Studio" is good. "A studio devoted to art depicting the feminine struggle of mother earth to rid Herself of the shackles of global warming" is even better.

Steve
 
Hello All, I have to agree with Terry ( great looking knives and website), it is not what you say but how you say it. I guess I am lucky, here in Oklahoma where I live the city did not care as long as I was not producing food products, no license needed. The state wanted their share of course and I had to become Anvil Top Knives Inc. and pay sales tax. I did not mention manufacturing, just a small business, home based, more of a hobby, and the lady was as nice as could be,
I remember George Carlins line also, I guess it kind of dates me. Great post subject!!! Robert
 
After reading all the posts, I gotta say what a sad day it has come to
when U.S. citizens have to ask or get permission to make a sharpened implement in their own back yards and homes!
Are we such sheep???
God bless the rest of us...:barf:
 
I used to live in a nice neighborhood in a small town. The zoning board I dealt with was more concerned about the constant flow of customers parking and blocking the street, big signs advertising the business, loud noises bothering the neighbors, and things of this nature. After assuring them that none of that would happen, and it didn't, it was never a problem.
Personally, I didn't see that as a problem.
I moved to rural Kaintuckee so I could do those things :D :D
 
Kit,
That was the cities primary concern in my area a well. When I made my posts above, for the sake of brevity, I jammed everything together like it was a single event.

Actually, it started with getting my Federal Tax ID -- no trouble there.

Then I had to go downtown and apply for a Certificate of Occupancy. I never completely understood what that one was about. I guess it was proof that I actually live in the city where I planned to start my business? It was also here that I was asked what type of business I was starting. That's where I used the *soft* words, which may not have even been necessary. No problem there either.

The next step was to go get the license. I presented the paperwork for the Certificate of Occupancy to the clerk and was asked what the name of the business was. I told her it was Primos Knives and waited for a funny look. No problem.

Two days later I got a call from a city rep. He was in his car on a cell phone and was on his way to my address. He said that he had to check out my office space and parking situation. That's where I mentioned that nobody would be parking and shopping here. I told him that all my business was run through the Internet, by phones, shows, etc. He said, in that case he wouldn't even have to come by. He drove back to his office and sent me my license.

---------------

Redneckidokie,
Even though the whole thing was time consuming, I didn't get any hassels at all. It wasn't really about getting permission to make sharpened implements. The city has to make sure that the proposed business is in an area zoned for that type of thing.

In other words, if you live in a quiet subdivision with neighbors all around you, you can't just cover your front yard with cement, put up a neon sign, and turn your house into a strip joint, or start up a place to design and test jet engines, etc. :D
 
Thanks all for the advice...need to be a little less complete in my description fo what I will be doing. Artist studio it is then. Metal sclupture Hummm (metal Butcher sometimes) may work.
 
Terry, you have some sage wisdom there!

Now without sounding like some weird militant hermit in the backwoods of New Hampshire (Live Free or Die), I think local, state and federal government does its best to keep us under their thumb. Well it's their jobs, isnt it? And if not their jobs then arent they just inventing inane reasons to "protect" the general populace?

I run my business out of my house, and I call it a blacksmith shop, which is what it is. No problem. When asked what I make I tell them Object D'Art. =)
 
The problem as I see it is that Government in this country has forgotten their reason for existing.
According to the Declaration of Independence, Governments are made by we the people so they can protect our rights.
The Declaration of Independence says, "To secure these rights, Governments are instuted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." The rights refered to here are "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness".
So there you have it. The reason Governments are made is so they can secure for us, the people, our God given rights of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
It's a shame that government in general does not know this. It's a bigger shame that most Americans no longer seem to know this.
Tom Lewis
 
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