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Debris shelter
- Thread starter Scottman
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 20,005
I've built and slept in one. This was in S. Louisianna during the summer, so it wasn't cold. It WAS, however raining cats and dogs the whole weekend. It was NOT comfortable at all. The leaves, etc made me itch constantly, and the mosquitoes and redbugs tore me up real good. I did stay pretty dry though.
I've built a couple and stayed in one, last summer.
Took a lot of effort dragging debris to cover it, but we were all survival noobs. Unfortunately this was in Wales and during the night it rained torrentially. Of course mine leaked thoroughly, but me and my partner managed to find a tarp to cover it.
It wasn't the most comfortable, but wasn't all that cold, with another body in it. We also had a large log fire built in between the openings of two, so temp-wise it was fine- although in a colder region it might be a problem.
If you had a sleeping bag- ours were taken away- it would probably be alright in any but the most extreme environment, as long as you had a decent fire.
Really the key is dense coverage, because rain is really the biggest problem. I got soaked, although mostly due to the fact that I sleep-walked in the night
(somewhat ironically I dreamt I was building a debris shelter). But yea, overall they're pretty worthwhile shelters to build.
Took a lot of effort dragging debris to cover it, but we were all survival noobs. Unfortunately this was in Wales and during the night it rained torrentially. Of course mine leaked thoroughly, but me and my partner managed to find a tarp to cover it.
It wasn't the most comfortable, but wasn't all that cold, with another body in it. We also had a large log fire built in between the openings of two, so temp-wise it was fine- although in a colder region it might be a problem.
If you had a sleeping bag- ours were taken away- it would probably be alright in any but the most extreme environment, as long as you had a decent fire.
Really the key is dense coverage, because rain is really the biggest problem. I got soaked, although mostly due to the fact that I sleep-walked in the night
(somewhat ironically I dreamt I was building a debris shelter). But yea, overall they're pretty worthwhile shelters to build.
- Joined
- May 19, 2005
- Messages
- 12,709
I used to build them and sleep in them when I was growing up. This was in Minnesota. I only ever tried them in the fall after all the mosquitoes had gone away.
I could make them pretty rain tight. For warmth, I always had a sleeping bag and sleeping pad, but my guess is they wouldn't be very warm at all during a ~35 degree night. Without a sleeping bag, I would have had to build a fire and reflect the warmth into the shelter. In that case, you probably aren't going to sleep very much, especially if it's raining out.
I could make them pretty rain tight. For warmth, I always had a sleeping bag and sleeping pad, but my guess is they wouldn't be very warm at all during a ~35 degree night. Without a sleeping bag, I would have had to build a fire and reflect the warmth into the shelter. In that case, you probably aren't going to sleep very much, especially if it's raining out.
I stayed in one during last fall. If you take the time to build it right they can be warm and rain tight but that's a good 3 hours work. Some thing that helped during my stay was that on second night I lined bed of leaves with pine boughs. That helped with itchiness a little. Also on my third night I smudged the shelter that helped with bugs inside the shelter but not too much with mosquitoes afterwards.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 20,005
Yea, it took hours to build, and was a huge mound of debris when I was done. Still, wasn't comfortable even if I stayed dry. Pine boughs may have helped. I remember looking for bedding, but I didn't consider pine because of the sap.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 9
I've built a couple of shelters and didn't find them that uncomfortable, though I have slept on the hard ground so many times that it doesn't bother me anymore. The biggest problem I had was all of the bugs crawling around inside the shelter, and I don't know of any good solution for that.
This is from page 33 in wilderness survival field guide.
"A warm cocoon of insulation under two and a half feet of debris should be enough to protect you to about ten above zero Fahrenheit. Four foot walls can keep you warm when it's forty below outside."
All I can say is that is a LOT of debris. Anybody go to Tom's school? Maybe they can elaborate on building these types of shelters.
Heres another question, you go in feet first right?
I am looking at these for a fall type shelter.
I would be sure to tuck in clothing into pants and button cuffs and put pants into boots to keep from pumping and to keep the itchy bedding away from my skin. Maybe wear a hood.
Later,
Scottman
"A warm cocoon of insulation under two and a half feet of debris should be enough to protect you to about ten above zero Fahrenheit. Four foot walls can keep you warm when it's forty below outside."
All I can say is that is a LOT of debris. Anybody go to Tom's school? Maybe they can elaborate on building these types of shelters.
Heres another question, you go in feet first right?
I am looking at these for a fall type shelter.
I would be sure to tuck in clothing into pants and button cuffs and put pants into boots to keep from pumping and to keep the itchy bedding away from my skin. Maybe wear a hood.
Later,
Scottman
I built one in the Advanced Standard class.
They are a great shelter if you're stuck out in the cold without a sleeping bag. and if you pack the INSIDE with debris too, they can be quite comfortable.
Mine took 5 hours to get right.
Clint Hollingworth
The Wandering Ones webcomic
http://www.wanderingones.com
They are a great shelter if you're stuck out in the cold without a sleeping bag. and if you pack the INSIDE with debris too, they can be quite comfortable.
Mine took 5 hours to get right.
Clint Hollingworth
The Wandering Ones webcomic
http://www.wanderingones.com
Did the class teach you a good way to smoke the bugs out of the shelter? If so could you elaborate the way he taught you.
Debris shelters work because of "fluffiness". Same concept as down or layering clothes. The more layers of debris and the more air is trapped in the debris, the warmer you will be. In real cold, you should literally "burrow" into your shelter (but feet first). This will give you maxmum warmth.
Scottman,
I have built several debris huts (the same as those described by TBJ). The coldest nights I have slept in one was down into the teens. Lets just say that you cannot have too much debris. You will also want to make sure that you do not have any drafting air. If you do the air will end up down by your feet and they will get really cold.
A couple of suggestions, if you are thinking about making one. Bring a tarp with you and a rake. You can use it to fill up with leaves and carry over to your shelter. This will help the process. I realize you wont have those in a true survival situation, but you dont need to suffer through the process to learn. A poorly made shelter will be suferage enough. I would also make sure that you have an good door and plug for the door way. This will be a major spot for drafting air. The last thing would be to make sure that you have a good bed of debris to sleep on. I have found that pine needles are best because they do not loose their loft. If you have to use leaves, then I would lay them down and smash them down a bit. Do this several times so you know that you have a really good base to sleep on.
As for bugs there are couple things you can do. The cedar shavings are one. But you don't always have those around. The sure bet is to smudge your shelter. When you do, make sure you don't set it on fire. The smoke from the smudge will drive the bugs out.
All Good Medicine.
Aaron
I have built several debris huts (the same as those described by TBJ). The coldest nights I have slept in one was down into the teens. Lets just say that you cannot have too much debris. You will also want to make sure that you do not have any drafting air. If you do the air will end up down by your feet and they will get really cold.
A couple of suggestions, if you are thinking about making one. Bring a tarp with you and a rake. You can use it to fill up with leaves and carry over to your shelter. This will help the process. I realize you wont have those in a true survival situation, but you dont need to suffer through the process to learn. A poorly made shelter will be suferage enough. I would also make sure that you have an good door and plug for the door way. This will be a major spot for drafting air. The last thing would be to make sure that you have a good bed of debris to sleep on. I have found that pine needles are best because they do not loose their loft. If you have to use leaves, then I would lay them down and smash them down a bit. Do this several times so you know that you have a really good base to sleep on.
As for bugs there are couple things you can do. The cedar shavings are one. But you don't always have those around. The sure bet is to smudge your shelter. When you do, make sure you don't set it on fire. The smoke from the smudge will drive the bugs out.
All Good Medicine.
Aaron
How comfortable they are depends on the debris you have, and the ammount. You can have not enough, never seen a time when I had to much were I couldn't regulate it with airflow. I do agree with the tarp thing- I suggest two contractor bags. Why two? One to stuff for a mattress, then open the other up to put over the top as a vapor barrier.
As for how cold... I've built them until the snow is on the ground. And last winter, we didn't have much snow, so with the addition of a sleeping bag, my record now stands at about zero. Just the debris and my clothes... About 15 or so, and that was a very chilly night.
Smudging is the traditional way. I might have sprayed some of mine with perimethium.... I'm a non-PC pinkskin, traditional only goes so far.
As for how cold... I've built them until the snow is on the ground. And last winter, we didn't have much snow, so with the addition of a sleeping bag, my record now stands at about zero. Just the debris and my clothes... About 15 or so, and that was a very chilly night.
Smudging is the traditional way. I might have sprayed some of mine with perimethium.... I'm a non-PC pinkskin, traditional only goes so far.
Can you describe how to make the door and the plug. I find that I am lost about this in the book and there is no picture. Also, where is the air hole? I realize you don't want draft, but how do you incorporate an air hole into these shelters? Also, since the walls around you are 2.5 feet or larger, is the plug/ door thing this thick to retain the warmth?
Also, so you're sleeping on bedding, and then there is the framework above you. Since the framework is going upward to the ridge pole, like a triangle, wouldn't there be unused space- no debris- directly above your body?
Do you bring debris to put on top of you while inside the shelter? Or do you just mat down the bedding, then literally stuff the remaining inside with fluffy debris then burrow in, making sure that there is some that covers you?
"The coldest nights I have slept in one was down into the teens. Lets just say that you cannot have too much debris."
Thanks. How do you find dry bedding?, I mean, I assume there was snow on the ground at that temp, so how do you find suitable bedding when it's snowing?
Thanks for helping me
Also, so you're sleeping on bedding, and then there is the framework above you. Since the framework is going upward to the ridge pole, like a triangle, wouldn't there be unused space- no debris- directly above your body?
Do you bring debris to put on top of you while inside the shelter? Or do you just mat down the bedding, then literally stuff the remaining inside with fluffy debris then burrow in, making sure that there is some that covers you?
"The coldest nights I have slept in one was down into the teens. Lets just say that you cannot have too much debris."
Thanks. How do you find dry bedding?, I mean, I assume there was snow on the ground at that temp, so how do you find suitable bedding when it's snowing?
Thanks for helping me
"Also, so you're sleeping on bedding, and then there is the framework above you. Since the framework is going upward to the ridge pole, like a triangle, wouldn't there be unused space- no debris- directly above your body?"
Yes and no. When you build it you stuff the inside a lot and also you make just a little bit bigger than your body. Hope this helps.
I might be wrong about this.
Yes and no. When you build it you stuff the inside a lot and also you make just a little bit bigger than your body. Hope this helps.
I might be wrong about this.
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2004
- Messages
- 1,447
I slept in this shelter every night for a week, It took me around three hours to built, but I did add extra debris each day, when I found extra time. The week I slept in it, it rained two nights, and got in the low 30's several nights, I stayed warm and dry.
Wow. That looks like an excellent example of a debris hut. It doesn't look like your first though??? I suspect that you have made many more. Am I right?
KR
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2007
- Messages
- 436
I've used them. Not comfortable but definitely more comfortable than the alternative.