Deception As Defense Re: Knife at Work

C

Confederate

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Sep 5, 2005
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Several years ago, a female colleague came into a conference room while I was opening a large box with a large Cold Steel Vaquero (4-inch blade). I knew I was in trouble because of the reaction I got. It was about 15 minutes to closing time, so I did nothing. The next day my boss called me into her office to ask me about the knife. The woman had reported it to be a "huge" wicked looking knife with a curved serrated blade. The technical limit was a 2.45-inch blade, and my knife, she said, had been rerted to be much larger. Well, I reached into my pocket and showed her my Cold Steel Vaquero 3-inch "medium" knife.

It wasn't the same knife, but you know how people are when they see things. In other words, the woman saw my 4-inch knife but the knife I showed my boss was a 3-incher. I didn't actually say the knife was the one the woman had seen, but I didn't exactly explain that it wasnt., either. (After all, these secretaries had 7-inch scissors in their desks and I didn't feel like taking a rap for having a 4-inch blade!) So my boss simply asked me not to flash my 3-incher and that was that. In short, I got off for having a blade one inch less than the one the secretary had seen.

Was this dishonest? I didn't say it was the same knife, as I said. Has anyone else done anything remotely like this? Instead of feeling guilty, I was rather pleased with myself.

I'm juust glad CS made the knife in varrying blade sizes. In this case the poor woman was hysterical...the blade apparently wasn't as big as she originally thought. Maybe sometime I'll try it with my Vaquero Grande!

Any other stories of defensive deceptions?
 
You should be really vocal about pushing for a 2.45" limit on scissors and see if they develop any common sense over time.
 
Not exactly the same, but I used to have a small Cold Steel manual OTF. the ER-1. I would take it out, slide the blade forward maybe an inch, slice he plastic or twine band, and slide it back in. People would ask, Huh? Was that a knife? They hardly saw so much as the blade, but saw the plastic pop apart so they knew I cut it with something.

Since I was the boss at the time, they weren't going to say anything if I did use a Vaquero Grande. :)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Not exactly the same, but I used to have a small Cold Steel manual OTF. the ER-1. I would take it out, slide the blade forward maybe an inch, slice he plastic or twine band, and slide it back in. People would ask, Huh? Was that a knife? They hardly saw so much as the blade, but saw the plastic pop apart so they knew I cut it with something.

Since I was the boss at the time, they weren't going to say anything if I did use a Vaquero Grande. :)
Click to expand...

Off topic but can you post a picture of the ER-1 I have been looking and cannot find a picture of one.
 
Confederate said:
Was this dishonest?
Click to expand...

Technically, yes. You allowed the truth to be obscured and you did it knowingly. How "wrong" it is really is a matter for *you* to decide.

The fact that someone would be so uncomfortable with you opening a box and using a knife as a tool (and in no way threatening or careless) would be greater cause for concern for me.

I used to work in an engineering office. In addition to construction oversight and associated tasks, I also spent a fair amount of time in the office. I recall opening a box at my desk once and the only blade I had available was a machete from my field box. I got some weird looks and smiles, but no one complained. I am certain that the office had a policy for acceptable blade lengths (that this machete exceeded by a foot or more), but in those days things were different I suppose? I can not share a "deception as defense" story, but in a comfortable/trusting work environment, I never had to deceive or defend.
 
of course it was "dishonest", but a smart move and i would have done the same thing...
 
Unfotunately CS has discontinued the Vaquero line. I have the 5" model and the 6" Vaquero Grande. Apparently they were never that popular although in my experience they are incredible trail clearers and as deadly self-defence folders as you will ever find.
Oops ,I'm praising Cold Steel. Should only be a minute or two before some knife snob comes on to warn you all how "crappy" CS knives really are and how much he loathes Lynn Thompson. [you should all be buying Busse and Rat and Chris Reeve ,don't cha know!]
 
Heh heh. It sucks that other people think they have the right to tell you what you can and can't use to go about your daily business. Sometimes you've gotta "toe the line" to avoid being hassled. As Esav noted, a little discretion can go a long way.

That said, in my office right now, I have 7 machetes laid out on the table, and nobody can say "boo" about it.:D One of the girls from a different company down the hall came in and saw them earlier today, and asked me what they were for. "Zombies" I said, with a straight face. "I freaking HATE zombies."

"Oh." She said. "I guess it's good we have you around then."

It's good to be the boss!
 
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CYA, baby!!! CYA!!! :thumbup:

You must protect yourself from the unenlightened. :p

I would have done the same thing.
 
rmc85 said:
A lie by omission is still a lie.
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First of all, no, it is not.
Second, so what? Do you contend a lie is always wrong?

* ****** **** ****** *

I've got what was known as El Hombre: the plain edge 4" Vaquero.
I wish they had made a plain edge Vaquero Grande.
 
People lie constantly. It's part of the human condition. Lying about something of this nature? I think anyone with a whit of wit would participate. :)
 
Perhaps if I had simply said I was pro-"choice" on knives it might not have become an issue. Or if I simply claimed the right to do as our elected leaders do and say I just didn't feel like obeying the policy.

The 7-inch scissors thing isn't viable. Hypocrisy is no excuse for disobeying policy! But I have no problem in my innovative move. (I can't be compelled to testify against myself, can I?) And truthfully, if I were a crazed killer in an office full of women, what difference would an inch make? And if the secretary had an issue with my having a knife, why not just say, "Do you have to bring that thing to work?" Why go to the boss?

The way the story ended is that I had to promise to only bring a knife to work with a 2.45-inch blade. A few months later, when I continued to open boxes with pocket knives, my boss called me in and pointed out that my job didn't require my bringing any knife to work (apparently the Case pocket knife my grandfather gave me was still bothering some of my colleagues. I just laughed, because it was a pointless request.
 
I feel your pain. I once worked in an office where I used a Gerber EZ-Out to open the plastic strap on a box of paper. I wasn't the only person there who carried a pocket knife -- I saw somebody else with one of those Camillus pocket-clip folders built out of a circuit board for a handle, if you recall those -- and I just took my cue from that.

Well, one day my manager called me into her office. She was so cool about it -- she basically said that somebody had complained twice (the same somebody) about the knife I had. The first time, she said, she thought it was so stupid she didn't even bother to mention it to me, but the second time she figured she had better let me know that there was a woman in the office who was "uncomfortable" that I carried such a knife.

I wrote a column recently about the intellectual dishonesty and emotional weakness of ever telling somebody that they make you "uncomfortable," particularly in a work setting. You can't face your accuser in that kind of completely subjective situation; you can't prove yourself innocent; you can't do anything but absorb their nonsense. This was just that sort of situation, where people's unreasonable hoplophobia has led them to fear even the most basic and benign of tools.

I didn't use my knife to open any more boxes of paper at that job. I didn't talk to the woman who complained, either, as she was clearly an idiot. I also came away with even more respect for my manager at the time, though, which was very cool. She remains one of the nicest people I've ever worked for, though I've long since left that place.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
First of all, no, it is not.
Second, so what? Do you contend a lie is always wrong?

* ****** **** ****** *

I've got what was known as El Hombre: the plain edge 4" Vaquero.
I wish they had made a plain edge Vaquero Grande.
Click to expand...

I guess we just have different opinions. I think a person should follow the rules at their place of work. I try to keep my nose clean and tell the truth if asked about something.
 
I would have done the same thing without question.
If my job were on the line, I would have lied until hell
froze over.
 
Yes, I got caught with my big bad tactical SAK while at Fairleigh Dickinson by some ultra hippie who apparently thought I was going to go on a killing spree with a swiss army knife. So she came running back with security ranting about a weapon and I chucked the Soldiers knife down a gopher hole and instead showed them eith a Vic cadet or one of the smaller 1.5" pen blades, whichever I had on my keychain at the time. They looked at her like she was supid and left me alone. I put in the papers to withdraw from the university the next day.

To answer your question, telling the truth in these and similar situations can only cause trouble, especially if the people around you, and more importantly the people in charge, are sissies about knives and such.
 
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Confederate said:
Several years ago, a female colleague came into a conference room while I was opening a large box with a large Cold Steel Vaquero (4-inch blade). I knew I was in trouble because of the reaction I got. It was about 15 minutes to closing time, so I did nothing. The next day my boss called me into her office to ask me about the knife. The woman had reported it to be a "huge" wicked looking knife with a curved serrated blade. The technical limit was a 2.45-inch blade, and my knife, she said, had been rerted to be much larger. Well, I reached into my pocket and showed her my Cold Steel Vaquero 3-inch "medium" knife.

It wasn't the same knife, but you know how people are when they see things. In other words, the woman saw my 4-inch knife but the knife I showed my boss was a 3-incher. I didn't actually say the knife was the one the woman had seen, but I didn't exactly explain that it wasnt., either. (After all, these secretaries had 7-inch scissors in their desks and I didn't feel like taking a rap for having a 4-inch blade!) So my boss simply asked me not to flash my 3-incher and that was that. In short, I got off for having a blade one inch less than the one the secretary had seen.

Was this dishonest? I didn't say it was the same knife, as I said. Has anyone else done anything remotely like this? Instead of feeling guilty, I was rather pleased with myself.

I'm juust glad CS made the knife in varrying blade sizes. In this case the poor woman was hysterical...the blade apparently wasn't as big as she originally thought. Maybe sometime I'll try it with my Vaquero Grande!

Any other stories of defensive deceptions?
Click to expand...

You definitely lucked out since I am pretty sure most people would wet themselves if I used a large knife at work. Funny thing happened a month or two ago when they had a cake for somebody's birthday. When the person who brought the cake in, they also brought in this massive chef's knife to cut it. I laughed knowing that the knife would be seen as a non threat even though one of my folders would be a near reason for a near instant termination. Good story in any case, glad your boss took it well.

hoopster said:
You should be really vocal about pushing for a 2.45" limit on scissors and see if they develop any common sense over time.
Click to expand...

Lol, that'd be great. Sad thing is, they'd piss and moan about it not being fair...though they'd finally see what we have to deal with.
 
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