Decisions decisions decisions

panch0

panch0

Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,415
I have been thinking about purchasing a HT oven. I have $1100 available and am now wondering if maybe I should up grade to a better belt grinder than my 2x42 craftsman. I could alway keep sending my blades out for HT. What do you guys think? It is a big investment and I want to make the decision that makes the most sense. Thanks.
 
Hmmmm...that's a really tough decision. I wouldn't be without either (though I'm currently without one as I'm rebuilding my home-built oven to get the holiday load done). I'm hoping I'll be able to step up to an Evenheat after the holidays.

I can tell you that I love my KMG with that special kind of love that a man can have for a machine :D. But I feel a similar love to the home-built monstrosity that is my oven.

You have been doing wonderful work with only a 2x42, and an oven will allow you to take that next step in becoming autonomous. I'd say get the oven and then save up for a better grinder or build your own. You can find decent deals on AC motors in the 1.5 to 2 hp range (check Grizzly's website for their discontinued/overstock items) and power them with a VFD in a clean box for a lot cheaper than a full motor/VFD setup from Rob (though I'd love to have that setup). From there, the KMG begins to look much more affordable. Or, pick up the motor and VFD as I mentioned above and build a NWG. Whenever you do take that step to a quality 2x72 with variable speed, your grinding skills you've honed on the 2x42 will serve you very well, and you'll likely see an immediate improvement in your quality of work.

Regardless of what you decide, the rule of the board is that you must take PICTURES!!

--nathan
 
Frank,

I went from a Craftsman 2x42 (still use it for some things) to a VS KMG, and as much as I'd like a HT oven I would do the grinder all over again. To me the Craftsman was one step above files and sandpaper, but otherwise frustrating, limiting, and annoying in general. The ability to dial in whatever speed I want is a HUGE advantage, not to mention easy changes to platen, contact wheel, small wheel, etc. I was frequently trembling when I stepped up to my Sears, afraid of what the hungry beast was going to do to my project...now I'm almost never afraid of the KMG. The versatility and control is outstanding; really, it's a totally different tool and the only similarities are that they both use an abrasive belt.

Just my opinion and I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any questions about the differences.
 
One more thing, are you overall happy with your belt grinder? What are the things that bug you about it? If you are reasonably happy and comfortable with it, then I think the HT oven is the right answer. If you pull your hair out over your grinder (like I tended to do), I think that's where I'd spend my money first.

Good luck with your decision.
 
The thing about the grinder that gets me is how fast I wear out the belts. I am used to the speed and although I do want to upgrade sometime I am paying 100+ every time I send out a batch of knives. Also having to profile and grind 12 blades is a pain. I have spent around $400 bucks in HT this year. I will probably double that next year. Its a tough desicion. Thanks guys.
 
I guess I'm in the minority. I would get a KMG. I know you could build your own but why when Rob does it better. Plus as far as heat treating your own blades goes I think it would make you more independent but then your time goes to doing that instead of other things and I'd rather let someone who specializes in it do it for me for a small fee (I do stock removal). I guess it really may make a difference depending on the volume of blades you are making and if you do this to supplement your income and if so to what extent. A small batch may make the oven seem worth while but wave after wave of large batches would be a pain (at least for me). You could always pass on the expense of sending them out to HT to your customers. Either way I'd want a really great grinder before getting an oven but that's just me.
 
I used a 2X42 grinder when I first started making knives and I dreaded using that machine. It was fustrating. After lots of researched I ordered my kmg 10 from Rob. I have been grinding on that machine for years. It has sped up my work and makes my time in the shop more enjoyable. Time is money. I would get a new grinder and then an oven. The more knives you can produce and sell the more money to be made that you can apply towards the purchase of that oven.
 
I'm not sure what an oven costs, but if you're spending $400/yr on HT then it sounds like the payback on the oven would only take you a couple of years or so...that means you could buy both!

Another option is to build/buy a simple forge and use simple steels you can HT yourself. Not as precise of course and you can't really do stainless, but the leftover money could put towards a grinder. There's also the NWG grinder option that Nathan mentioned if you're handy and like to build tools.
 
Hmmm. How long does it take from when you order a kmg to get it at your door...ball park? These are good points everyone. One thing about making a batch for HT is the dreaded grinding on the 2x42. it takes forever and I am always worried about screwing up. I don't really mind the 2 week wait for the blades at HT. Grrrrrrr this is hard, I was leaning toward the oven but have shifted toward a grinder. Thanks for the input so far fellas.

Paul its good to see you here more often.

Nathan you always seem to read between the lines and know what is really on my mind when I post up a question. Thanks
 
Rob ships them out pretty fast. I believe it took a week to get mine but it has been a few years. If you shoot him an email he will let ya know.

I have no regrets. I love my KMG.
 
So a while back someone posted a grizzley VFD motor and a variable speed controller. What are some inexpensive units that work well with the kmg?
 
I am having some profiled by Great Lakes Waterjet to cut down on the profiling. That will save some belts and time. I'll also suggest the KMG or clone for the next buy. It sounds like that you are making enough knives to get the $$ for the oven after the KMG (and it won't take too long I'm thinking). The 2 x 72 belts will last longer as well and will come in a greater variety. Best of luck!
 
Tough choice. I think I'd go with the grinder. Either way, I'm sure you'll be happy with your new toy.
 
I will tell you I will never regret getting the KMG. First class grinder all the way. And the control you get with variable speed is something I would hate to live without now that I have it. I use a TECO FM50 VFD coupled with a Grizzly 3600rpm AC 2hp motor. The VFD is mounted in a clean box as it's not dust proof and will short out sooner or later with all the metal dust kicked up by the grinder. Check out my shop tour on my site to see what I've got set up.

Rob got mine shipped out in a week or so after I ordered, btw.

--nathan
 
Frank,

I also started with the Craftsman,
Then built a KMG clone.
Then bought an even heat oven.
If I had to do it over I would do it the same way.
Thats my two cents.

Greg
 
Pancho get the GRINDER! You can already get things HT'd easily, now you can grind them MUCH easier.
 
Count into the fact that you will be using power for the oven as well as HT foil that you must buy as well.

My vote is grinder . You can then have more options , flat platen , contact wheel , small wheel , rotary platen if desired.

With that said , one thing that annoys me is doing things in batches , having to get 20+blades done to make it worth sending out for HT kind of kills my creativity. I do like being able to make the knife start to finish in one weekend . so an oven would be great.

Tough call which only you can decide . How much life is left in your craftsman ? If you buy a oven and it gives up the ghost soon , will you be dead in the water until you can buy a replacement ?
 
Good on you for getting to this point, Frank. If it was me, I'd buy some 1080 and a KMG. That way you could use your awesome grinder, but do your own HT. I just picked up a small kiln for 100, then upgraded to digital controls for another 80. Might buy the grinder then keep an eye on craigslist.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top