Defect in Blade?

M

My Young Apprentice

Joined
Dec 8, 2012
Messages
132
I've been using a Norton 600/1000 combo stone with oil. I'm loving learning how to sharpen free hand. There's something so simple about it...kind of like washing the dishes by hand. It's almost therapeutic. I can just sit and concentrate on one thing and nothing else...

Anyway, I've been practicing on my Wave (I know, not the best knife, but that thing is my baby, I've had it for years. Plus, it's not a crazy expensive knife, so good for practice.) When I'm confident in my sharpening skills I will get a real knife to ride along side my wave in my EDC. I think my saving grace has been the sharpie on the bevel trick.

I would love to know how to guys get such good pictures of your bevels, because I couldn't for the life of me. I was trying to capture what I think could be a defect in the blade...but it does not look bent or like it was ground wrong. In the belly of the blade, on the right side only, I can't get the stone to touch the meat of the primary bevel. At first I thought it was my technique, but no matter how I changed it it will NOT hit that part of the blade. I changed the angle, pressure, even made sure I wasn't rocking the blade side to side on accident. The other side sharpens just fine. And I figure I'm doing a fairly good job, as the blade cuts like it never has before. It's got a gritty toothy working edge that I love.

Any suggestions for that part that won't hit?
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Keep on keeping on, I've seen a lot of knives that were sharpened say 20 degrees on one side and 30 or even 40 on the other, you just gotta use the sharpy trick and find that edge, once you find the right angle , As you sharpen your blade make double strokes on the side that is ground less , than the other one and eventually it will even itself out. Yes i quoted Ben Dale in the edge pro instruction video but it's true. I was having a time tring to find the correct angle for my brand new cqc-7 on the edge pro, I couldn't find it no matter how high i went, So i went ahead and started a full on reprofile, haven't finished it yet as I'll do it over time it takes away a lot of metal to rerprofile a blade , I just sharpened it enough to get a good edge, and from now one when i sharpen the knife it will be at that angle until the reprofiling is complete. Dunno if this helped you out or not though..To me it looks like your blade is diffently 2 different angles , but people with more knowledge than I may need to step in if thats the case just follow the above advice in my thread. Looks like you've also started to reprofile that other side already as I can see the original edge and where you been sharpening at , just keep doing what your doing until both sides match up.
 
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That's what I was thinking too, and that I should try to reprofile it on the 600 side, but it's only happening in the middle of the blade. On both sides of the edge (on the belly and towards the back) are getting sharpened, but the middle is staying untouched. Could the center of the edge be a different angle than the belly/tip and back of the blade? And only one side?
 
Could be , and if 600 is the lowest grit you have, then yea go for it, it may take awhile put you'll get there eventually. If you have the funds I would invest in some extra extra course stones, or extra course diamond stones , or doesn't even haft to be diamond but for reprofiling, 600 will do it , just be prepared to be sharpening for awhile.
 
So when you use sharpie, , your not hitting the belly or the back of the blade just the upper part of the blade? Reason I ask as when i sharpen an my edge pro the bevel always gets wider around the tip area, where your describing as the only part of the blade your hitting, you can go to wolly world and pick up a smiths double sided diamond stone for the cheap, I have one sitting right here beside me that i never use, but it would be alot better to reprofile with than a 600 grit stone, it will save you a lot of time and energy, the key is don't get frustrated like I did my first couple of tries, youll end up ruining your knife, Just keep putting on some marker and keep trying to find that edge. I promise it's there somewhere you just gotta find it, you have anyway to measure your angles, as in what is the good side of the edge sharpened at?
 
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That's very common, and it's easily remedied. Just make sure you're compensating for the curve of the belly by lifting the handle, and don't be afraid to give a little extra TLC to that spot, putting your free hand fingers right on that spot to keep pressure there. Just sweep the whole blade a few times afterwards to even the whole bevel out. Grinds and factory edge angles are sometimes messed up. A little stone work, TLC on the problem spots, and angle compensation does the trick.

I wish knifenut was here more often. This looks like a great vid for him to make! But if he doesn't, I'll give it a stab this weekend. I've been wanting to use the Norton Combo India Stone again (that's what that is, right?), and I've got a few knives to sharpen, so this might be the perfect time for a new project and new video. I'm not a pro, and I'm still learning, but I totally hear you, and that is a common problem, so don't worry.

EDIT: I just re-read your post and saw that you had issues with the straight part (close to the heel, right?). Well, that is also common. Factory edges often have bevel issues at the heel or tip (often both). But the solution is the same: a little extra TLC, good pressure, and then even the whole bevel out. By TLC, I mean spend extra time on that spot. Go ahead and grid the heck out of it until its the way it should be, just break it up by doing the whole bevel and doing the other side so that you keep the bevels even.

Allen R. said:
Could be , and if 600 is the lowest grit you have, then yea go for it, it may take awhile put you'll get there eventually. If you have the funds I would invest in some extra extra course stones, or extra course diamond stones , or doesn't even haft to be diamond but for reprofiling, 600 will do it , just be prepared to be sharpening for awhile.
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The Norton Combo India stone is very coarse (especially the coarser side). The coarse side is equivalent to 135 grit sandpaper (97 microns), which is between the XXC and XC DMT stones. The "fine" side is equivalent to 340 grit sandpaper (35 microns), which is between the C and F DMT stones. India stones don't cut as fast, but they cut plenty fast for that steel.
 
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Glad someone else jumped in, As I can't freehand for anything, but you haft to have some knowledge of blade grinds and geometry and stuff like that to use the edge pro, So I'm kinda free handing I just have a guide to make sure all my strokes are the same , and a little colored ball to tell me what angle I'm doing it at , best $245.00 dollars spent.
 
Just sent a pm with a link to this thread to IMO is one of the best knife sharpeners I have ever seen maybe he can give you some more advice.
 
Magnaminous_G said:
The Norton Combo India stone is very coarse (especially the coarser side). The coarse side is equivalent to 135 grit sandpaper (97 microns), which is between the XXC and XC DMT stones. The "fine" side is equivalent to 340 grit sandpaper (35 microns), which is between the C and F DMT stones. India stones don't cut as fast, but they cut plenty fast for that steel.
Click to expand...

Oh I had no idea I was just comparing it to some other 600 grit stone's I have seen and they sharpen but , my 600 grits are more of a polishing stone than a reprofiling stone. My mistake
 
got your pm allen :D.

my young apprentice, i would be glad to help you out. it is hard to see what the problem is from your pictures. its a lot easier for me to help someone by talking to them. if you send me an email with your number i'll be glad to give you a call and help you to get your knife sharpened. my hands are bothering me bad today so talking is also a lot easier for me.

rje196021@gmail.com
 
I suggest you give Richard a call the man is highly respected on here and has sharpened about a dozen knives for me , before i got the egde pro and they all came back with screaming sharp edges, that will last a very long time, his knowledge about sharpening is amazing.
 
Jesus, thanks for all the quick replies guys. I was busy putting the 3 year old down for a nap. I decided to sharpen it again with the sharpie so that some sharpie would be left on that trouble spot, and it would give you guys a clearer picture. As I was doing that trouble side (while rocking the 1 month old to sleep with my foot, which I am still doing as I type this, lol) I noticed that after I was done the blade stayed much straighter on the stone, and that there was little to no sharpie left. The spot still does not have the full scratch pattern like the rest of the blade, but I think it's getting there. You guys were right, no defect, just needed some metal taken off. I'll keep hitting that spot especially and see what happens.

I'll keep your e-mail Richard, for now I think the issue will take care of itself. Always good to have help though :). I do have one question however. Should I hit the 600 side to take more of the metal off and fix the issue quicker? Or should I wait until I have more experience with keeping a straight bevel before I try re-profiling? And yes, it is the Combo stone. I wanted to go natural, instead of paying a ton of money for DMT stones and tearing my blades up with inexperience. I'll upgrade eventually, but for now this is great.
 
i hope you are switching sides to keep the edge centered :D. if you have just a little more to go, stick with the finer grit until you get a burr then strop the burr off. i myself never take an edge over 400 grit. i sharpened a knife for a friend using 80 grit and he told me he was treetopping hairs off his arm.

if you want to try something different to sharpen with, get a piece of glass and some 3m wetordry brand sandpaper in 120-280-320 and 400 grit. i sharpened knives like this as a kid for years.
 
I am actually keeping the burr centered. When I feel one I immediately switch sides. Everything I know about sharpening I've learned from this site xD. I would have never known to feel for a burr.

And I'm using an India stone, not sand paper. So the grits are different.
 
My Young Apprentice said:
I've been using a Norton 600/1000 combo stone with oil. I'm loving learning how to sharpen free hand. There's something so simple about it...kind of like washing the dishes by hand. It's almost therapeutic. I can just sit and concentrate on one thing and nothing else...

Anyway, I've been practicing on my Wave (I know, not the best knife, but that thing is my baby, I've had it for years. Plus, it's not a crazy expensive knife, so good for practice.) When I'm confident in my sharpening skills I will get a real knife to ride along side my wave in my EDC. I think my saving grace has been the sharpie on the bevel trick.

I would love to know how to guys get such good pictures of your bevels, because I couldn't for the life of me. I was trying to capture what I think could be a defect in the blade...but it does not look bent or like it was ground wrong. In the belly of the blade, on the right side only, I can't get the stone to touch the meat of the primary bevel. At first I thought it was my technique, but no matter how I changed it it will NOT hit that part of the blade. I changed the angle, pressure, even made sure I wasn't rocking the blade side to side on accident. The other side sharpens just fine. And I figure I'm doing a fairly good job, as the blade cuts like it never has before. It's got a gritty toothy working edge that I love.

Any suggestions for that part that won't hit?
Click to expand...

Hard to say from the pics but it sure sounds like your blade is warped in the region that just won't come around. Hold it edge up and look along the blade from heel to tip and tip to heel. If there's a warp large enough to throw you off it'll show. If there is a warp the best way to overcome it is to treat that region like a recurve and actually lower the handle as you grind there, making sure there will be contact with the stone at that spot, mostly on the corner of the stone. Go easy with the pressure, working the corner exponentially increases the amount of pressure the blade will see on the stone.

The other giveaway is that it will be very easy to whip up a burr to either side of the defect. Strong overhead lighting is your friend. Warps, small and large are not uncommon and can really give you fits if you don't spot them first.

I made a vid not too long ago using this stone - very dry but you might find it helpful
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-sharpening-video!?highlight=sharpening+video
 
Apprentice, Yes, that looks to be a Norton combo India stone. Work it on the coarse side until you have a burr. Then go to the fine stone. The Leatherman Wave is a nice tool. They also made that model with upgrade steel. I think it was 154-cm. Otherwise, the steel is 420HC if not stated. Good sharpening. Stay with it. DM
 
Hi, My Young Apprentice. I’m not a pro by any means, but I’ve been learning a lot lately, and I’m happy to share what I’ve learned. I hope this helps! I was sharpening a few knives today and came across the perfect candidate to illustrate this issue. Same problem: a warp on the straight segment of the blade. I sharpened it on the Norton Combo India stone but left the warp intact to illustrate for our purposes.

Here is the clean side of the blade after normal sharpening (coarse and then fine side of the stone):
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Here is the warped side after the same sharpening. As you can see, the bevel was hardly even touched by the stones. You can still distinctly see the factory grind, and the edge was not sharp on those sections:
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Here is the warped side after repair. You can see that the some of the gouges from the warp damage are still there, but the bevel is scratched with the final stone’s pattern, and the edge is now apexed:
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Here is the video showing how I got those results:
[youtube]h9_3tdfnOWg[/youtube]
 
Magnaminous_G said:
Hi, My Young Apprentice. I’m not a pro by any means, but I’ve been learning a lot lately, and I’m happy to share what I’ve learned. I hope this helps! I was sharpening a few knives today and came across the perfect candidate to illustrate this issue. Same problem: a warp on the straight segment of the blade. I sharpened it on the Norton Combo India stone but left the warp intact to illustrate for our purposes.

Here is the video showing how I got those results:
[youtube]h9_3tdfnOWg[/youtube]
Click to expand...

Dude, this video is epic. It has effectively doubled my knowledge of sharpening. Video's and anecdotal advice helps...but to get a video with your sharpening system and with the issues that you are specifically dealing with and how to take care of them? It's a huge help. That's to say nothing of the technique learned...I didn't really have any to begin with, but watching your video gives me a very good place to start. I did have a few questions though, out of curiosity.

1.My Little Apprentice? Lmao, there goes any credibility I had...combining my name with my little pony xD
2. I haven't stropped on anything, but I have been doing edge-trailing strokes on the fine side to get rid of the burr. I thought that was the same as stropping? And why newspaper then leather? Do the two different materials do two different things?
 
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