Define "super steel"...

SVTFreak said:
The fact is, 99% of the world will never know the difference between steels. Throw in hardness and blade geometry factors, almost any decent steel will be good for anyone.
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People will notice a difference in use.
They won't know what exact steel is being used, but even amongst kitchen knives of the same thickness and geometry, a difference in edge retention shows up really quickly.

Or the difference between a plain carbon steel and a stainless steel, at least as regards rust resistance. After cutting fruits and veggies that difference can show up VERY quickly.
 
salmonkiller said:
It's a steel that I consider super for my uses.
A few Examples:
H1
S110V
3V
How and what you use your knife for defines what steel works best and therefore the definition of super steel is very subjective.
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I agree with this fellow. H1 provides supreme resistance to rust. S110V means you won't have to sharpen your blade for quite a while, but it will take longer to do so.
And 3V provides toughness and isn't so likely to snap when you use it for a pry-bar. However, it's not nearly as good in edge-holding as is S110V.

It's obvious that super-steels can be categorized according to very different criteria. However, for many of us, the term "super-steels" refers to cutting ability...edge-holding. Jim Ankerson is "the Man" when it comes to ranking of steels, and his "Ranking of steels" (rope-cutting) is available on this forum...right here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...based-on-Edge-Retention-cutting-5-8-quot-rope
 
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My definition is:
Any steel that has been created by the use of particle metallurgy standards, be it first, second, or third generation that was geared towards use in an industrial manner but has since made its way to the cutlery world and found a good use as such.

Is my definition correct, all encompassing, or standardized? Hells no, but it works for me.
 
Super steel is a blade made from any steel you don't currently own - but must have.

"Hey, the new S111045V blade just came out!"

"Super!"
 
Any steel that excels in one or more categories (usually more than 1) is a super steel. And the more categories, the better. H1 isnt "super" in my mind because it only excels in one category: corrosion resistance. Its edge retention (at least in PE) kinda sucks and its not very wear resistant. M390 is super because its very well rounded (IMO) and better than conventional stainless steels in almost every area

And yes, like RevDevil said, the super steels usually fall under the particle metallurgy category. Coincidence? I think not ;) Times are changing, steels are changing, and super is all relative.
 
I doubt I'll ever know. 154cm and s30v are the end all be all that I can afford. Most of the knives I own are made with 1095 or 400 something SS. Anything else is a dream. That's why I'm here on the BF. So I can live vicariously through the Big Money Players that can roll the "Super Steels".
 
wazu013 said:
I doubt I'll ever know. 154cm and s30v are the end all be all that I can afford. Most of the knives I own are made with 1095 or 400 something SS. Anything else is a dream. That's why I'm here on the BF. So I can live vicariously through the Big Money Players that can roll the "Super Steels".
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Spyderco has put out a bunch of mules in super steels for very low prices. The Manix 2 in S110V is available now at many retailers for about $100 -- that's a high-quality knife with a super steel.

Super steels are often niche steels for particular purposes, but not always. My EDC right now is a Military in CPM M4 -- it's an absolutely awesome knife and was affordable when it came out. Rather than buy a suitcase full of cheap, low-quality knives that never get used, buy just one or two high-quality knives and use them.

It's curious how many people there are on a dedicated knife forum who have such a head case against high-performance steels.
 
JR88FAN said:
My mistake. I meant to say production folders......

It is heavily used in fix blades, but that is changing.
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I ment production knives... As in folders AND fixed blades.....

1095 has been used very heavily and still is in production folders as far back as I can remember, and I still have a few very old ones around...

There are hundreds of models currently available....
 
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Twindog said:
Spyderco has put out a bunch of mules in super steels for very low prices. The Manix 2 in S110V is available now at many retailers for about $100 -- that's a high-quality knife with a super steel.

Super steels are often niche steels for particular purposes, but not always. My EDC right now is a Military in CPM M4 -- it's an absolutely awesome knife and was affordable when it came out. Rather than buy a suitcase full of cheap, low-quality knives that never get used, buy just one or two high-quality knives and use them.

It's curious how many people there are on a dedicated knife forum who have such a head case against high-performance steels.
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I started to reply to this but when I read what I was spewing I decided to just let it go.
 
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wazu013 said:
I started to reply to this but when I read what I was spewing I decided to just let it go.
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Ya, best to let that one go, but it's not easy......

That is a guy the term 'super steel' was invented for.
 
I consider it super steel if it is well rounded between toughness and edge retention while also being exemplary in a specific area. 3V doesn't hold an edge amazingly, but it is one of the toughest steels out there. ZDP-189 isn't super tough, but it can he hardened to a very high hardness and has decently rounded performance over 60. H1 isn't super tough and doesn't hold an edge amazingly but it is corrosion proof.
 
Ankerson said:
I ment production knives... As in folders AND fixed blades.....

1095 has been used very heavily and still is in production folders as far back as I can remember, and I still have a few very old ones around...

There are hundreds of models currently available....
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Especially in the traditional knife world. :)
 
Sonnydaze said:
... S110V means you won't have to sharpen your blade for quite a while, but it will take longer to do so....
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Not necessarily, or not at all. In most of the normal use cases it will take less time to restore sharp edge on S110V than on low alloy steels.
Rebeveling, or repairing heavy edge damage will take longer because the steel is highly wear resistant, but routine edge maintenance is less time consuming.
 
I find it interesting that many people associate "High Wear Resistance" with "super steels".

I like to think of "super steels" more along the lines of technology used in making the steel.

Case and point, lets look at two opposite sides of the spectrum.

- M390.

A pure alloy due to its 3rd generation powdered/particle metallurgical process by Bohler. Costly. Wear resistance orientated and corrosion resistant developed for the plastic mold industry. Can be run at good hardness of 62. Many consider it a "super steel" due to its wear resistance.

- Nitrobe-77

Considered a very pure alloy using Pearl Technology from Erasteel using Nitrogen to replace Carbon. Costly. Developed for the food industry (blender blades). Not a high wear resistant steel as it was developed mainly for corrosion resistance and limited chance of chipping. Chipping was a no go option when developed. Can be run at a good hardness of 62. Not really talked about and not really hyped as a "super steel" because it is not "high wear resistant", however the process in making it is just as advance as the more popular "super steels".

Here is a good graph showing Hardness and Corrosion resistance.

9034012357_fb532dc9e8_c.jpg


Just my 0.2 cents that the process, refinement and purity of a steel is what makes it "super" for me. Given that all other things are equal.
 
In the other knife forums I read, the outdoors magazines I read, the gear and testing magazines and blogs I read, I rarely hear the term "super steel" used. I don't know that I have seen it used in a knife maker's magazine.

But here, it is the topic of much hot debate. It seems to have a few definitions:

- A newer steel used on a premium knife that the boys decide isn't worth the money (both knife and steel sometimes!)

- A steel that adds more money to a knife than the boys think it should

- A steel that the group has heard doesn't live up to the hype they have generated for it

- A steel that is made from a complicated, engineered process

- In some areas of the knife world and on this forum, any steel that doesn't rust and require maintenance

- In those same areas forum, any steel that can be hardened to 58 Rockwell and still hold and edge, and is too hard to sharpen on the bottom of a coffee cup

- It could be any steel the group thinks isn't worth the money

I have personally never seen a manufacturer of cutlery steel announce their existing or new offerings as a "super steel".

I have never personally seen any knife manufacturer roll out an ad campaign with a "now featuring the new XXXXX super steel!" when promoting their knives.

That term seem to be tossed around a lot by knife guys on internet forums, mostly in disdain. Mostly here.

Robert
 
Krissig12 said:
Any steel that excels in one or more categories (usually more than 1) is a super steel. And the more categories, the better. H1 isnt "super" in my mind because it only excels in one category: corrosion resistance. Its edge retention (at least in PE) kinda sucks and its not very wear resistant. M390 is super because its very well rounded (IMO) and better than conventional stainless steels in almost every area

And yes, like RevDevil said, the super steels usually fall under the particle metallurgy category. Coincidence? I think not ;) Times are changing, steels are changing, and super is all relative.
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Let's not forget toughness. H1 is about more than corrosion resistance IMHO. Especially when we are talking about the serrated edge iteration.
 
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