definition of bladeplay?

C

curious2003

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Apr 20, 2003
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I notice that the term "bladeplay" is used often when describing a folding blade's movement vertically or horizontally.

Yet in the case of horizontal play, does "play" mean the blade is not snug and unmoving against the stop pin? Or does it mean any form of "wiggle"? I would assume that any thin solid substance will flex if wiggled back and forth (i.e. holding the handle firmly and wiggling the blade at the tip). How can a folding knive possibly exhibit zero play at all? I have read that many people test "play" throughout the blade, including the tip and not only near the tang/stop pin area.

Can somebody enlighten me on this? Thanks.
 
i define blade play as a discernable shifting of the blade when i shake it from side to side and front to back

i had vertical blade play from linerlock wear on my trident
made a slight sound from the blade moving when shook front to back

horizontal blade play usually results from the loosening of the pivot pin
when i tightened my folder it went away

my own experience, don't take it as gospel :)
 
I invite my friends over for some bladeplay in the back yard, or the garage if it is raining, quite often.

OOPs, Did you mean how much the tolerances allow the folding blade to move on it's axis and pivot pin?

It's one of the first things I look at when receiving a new knife. Most can stand some tightening or loosening when received. I locktight it to the desired level of fit and never have problems later on.

Brownie
 
I think that some horizontal play is inherent unless you really tighten down the pivot screw. I typically adjust the pivot so that it is tight, but will still allow the knife to open fairly easily. A knife should not have vertical play though. If a knife is made correctly, the tolerances and design will be such that vertical play is eliminated. Some folders, like a lock back, will always have some blade play due to the design.
 
Well, since im definitely one who checks for and HATES blade play, i thought id chime in. On a liner/framelock, there is no excuse for play, either V or H, if theres play, the knife wasnt made correctly, period. I have seen some cheap production brands that consistantly have zero play, so again, no excuses, a well made knife should have no play.

I define H play as a small gap between the washers and the blade, which allows some small amount of movement side to side. I have many knives which have none, in fact, i cant imagine keeping a knife that had any. I think what you were asking about is more "flex" than play, flex is simply the blade flexing slightly and thats fine, play is actual movement of the blade within the washers and thats not fine.

Vertical play is different and indicates a small gap between the lock and blade (on a liner/framelock) and this too is unacceptable and means you have a defective lock.

Now, i agree that its more common for a lockback to have both types of play and that on a lockback, its not as bad if there is a tiny amount of play, however, i have certainly seen many lockbacks, as inexpensive as Spydercos, which have no play at all, so, again, if they can do it, so can others.

I bascially wont buy a knife if it has any play that i can detect.

Now, when you have play in a fixed blade, youre in trouble! :)
 
There should be no blade play whatsoever on a knife. Otherwise I'm just not satisfied.

Electric Zombie,
As Megalobyte said Spydercos don't seem to have this problem. The only two lockbacks that I own are Spydercos and they don't have blade play problems at all. Maybe other companies lockbacks exibit such problems but def. not all lock backs.
-Kevin
 
Morgoth412,

I currently own 2 Enduras, 1 Delica and 1 Chinook. All of them have vertical blade play. In fact, I have never seen a Spyderco lockback (or any other lockback for that matter - Buck, Cold Steel, etc) that did not have at least a small amount of vertical play. Over the years I have probably owned 6 Spyderco lockbacks and they all had play so, I do not think this is a case of where I just got a bad knife.

I think that our definitions of "blade play" differ slightly.
 
I define bladeplay as a certain amount of wiggle in the blade. (Whether this is caused by shaking the knife or moving the blade with the hand.) My Native and Delica have no wiggle to them.

If you push down on the blade hard while cutting though the lock and blade will move upward slightly in the FRN skin. I don't consider this bladeplay, and there in may lie our different definiton.
-Kevin
 
I have never seen bladeplay in any new spyderco.
From what I've seen bladeplay cannot be forced.
If you wiggle a knife without forcing it,
and you can feeling knocking around against the pin, you've got play.
I've never had a problem with H play.
 
Originally posted by Morgoth412

If you push down on the blade hard while cutting though the lock and blade will move upward slightly in the FRN skin. I don't consider this bladeplay, and there in may lie our different definiton.
-Kevin
Click to expand...

This is what I was refering too. Otherwise, there is no play in the Spydercos I mentioned. This slight bit of movement is so tiny that it is not really noticable anyway.
 
ah
so am i alone in noticing vertical play due to linerlock wear?
i noticed this after about 8 months for consistent opening... and no small amount of flicking, i'm afraid :o
 
In liner and framelocks you can sometimes rotate the blade stop pin and take care of vertical play. Othertimes it may take a little extra bend in the locking bar to take care of the vertical play. I have a new Cold Steel Rajah II with the Tri-Ad lock, a lockback that includes a stop pin, and there is absolutely no vertical play in it. I too like an extra tight pivot so I never have to worry about horizontal play.
 
To me, blade play is any discernible movement between the blade and the handle when the knife is open and locked position.

If you hold the handle in one hand, and grasp the sides of the blade with your other hand, any movement is "blade play".
 
I hate bladeplay, but I've come to accept it in certain knives.

My sebenza, emerson cqc7, benchmade 940, and spyderco military have absolutely no play in any direction. I had to tighten/loctite the bm and spyderco but they are fine after that.

My Benchmade 710 has some slight up/down play. I've returned 3 of these and they are all the same. Unless I tighten the pivot to the point where I need two hands to open the blade, there will be slight play. I'm guessing because of the long blade. I don't care though, the wiggle isn't enough to affect function, and it's a great knife. My buck 301 stockman also has bladeplay which is very disappointing, but I've been told it's normal
 
megalobyte has the answer. I would agree most with his choice of words. True, a blade may FLEX slightly, and that may be fine, but this should not be confused with blade PLAY, which is not good. and indeed, unacceptable.
 
No excuse for vertical slop....side to side play depends on manufacturer, design, and fit and finish quality. BM Axis pivot needs to be a tiny bit loose for omega springs to retract closed past detent (design). Sebenza covers it all every time. Just bought Caly 3 with zero V or H play (hand picked at a knife store) as lock backs tend to have some V play.

Actually quite impressed with washerless zero play Caly 3. If I judge a knive on its zero play,the Caly 3 wont have to hide in shame in the knive drawer with the Sebenzas and other customs.
 
wally@ferguson said:
No excuse for vertical slop....side to side play depends on manufacturer, design, and fit and finish quality. BM Axis pivot needs to be a tiny bit loose for omega springs to retract closed past detent (design). Sebenza covers it all every time. Just bought Caly 3 with zero V or H play (hand picked at a knife store) as lock backs tend to have some V play.

Actually quite impressed with washerless zero play Caly 3. If I judge a knive on its zero play,the Caly 3 wont have to hide in shame in the knive drawer with the Sebenzas and other customs.
Click to expand...

...so your saying that for BM knives with an axis lock the pivot needs to be a little loose? what about assisted axis?
 
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