Definition of "concealed carry" .

K

Killer Kane

Joined
May 28, 2001
Messages
47
In light of the recent pending legislation in Ca., I was wondering what actually constitutes "concealed carry" .
I realize every law is open to interpretation by the LEO or Judge to whom you must answer , but if I have a knife in a pouch on my belt , or if it's clipped to the edge of my pocket with only the top sticking out is it by definition concealed ?
Maybe this is not the proper forum for this discussion , but in light of recent events , maybe it is somthing that we should be aware of and even if we choose to ignore it , we might want to be more careful.

Regards , Cameron
 
I've been cofused by this also, but out of the two scenarios you mentioned I believe that the pouch would not be considered concealed, but the clipped inside pocket would be in most areas. Shame since thats the method most of us use to carry knives.

Dark Nemesis

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Crimson Horizon
Nothing but edge baby...
dark.nemesis@home.com
 
Check out www.findlaw.com for any legal issues.

It's mainly aimed at the legal profession, but you may be able to get some decent info there.

Also, what is considered "concealed" is generally viewed from the point of view of the "average" person. The average guy may not spot your clip-carry position, while a LEO may spot it from 20 feet away. The standards vary in different jurisdictions.
BTW, Welcome to the forum.
smile.gif

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Dick

[This message has been edited by knifenerd (edited 06-03-2001).]
 
The following info is only good in Ca, that is the only law and case law I am familiar with.

There is no issue of concealed carry with folders. So long as it is in the closed position it may be carried in any manner. And despite rumors you may have heard, this is regardless of size.

The sticky issue is fixed blades or folders in the open position. Any fixed blade under two inches may be carried any way you desire. Any knife over 2" must be
" carried in a sheath on at your waist in plain view". This is per P.C.12020. Current case law has made two changes to this. The first being neckers. So long as all of the knife, including handle and sheath,is plainly visible it is legal. Also there is a new indirect concealment clause. This states that a single edged fixed blade worn in a sheath at your waist may be partialy covered by outer clothing. This is meaning that you may have a jacket covering the knife. However you may not have it covered by a shirt that can be tucked in or any type of sweat shirt or pullover. You also may not carry it in an inside the waist band type sheath or a shoulder rig.

A dirk or dagger may not be covered in any way.

Just for referance : I spent a bit of time as a Federal LEO serving in Ca.

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R.W.Clark

Proud Member : California Knifemakers Association
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by R.W.Clark:
The sticky issue is fixed blades or folders in the open position. Any fixed blade under two inches may be carried any way you desire. Any knife over 2" must be
"carried in a sheath on at your waist in plain view". This is per P.C.12020. Current case law has made two changes to this. The first being neckers. So long as all of the knife, including handle and sheath,is plainly visible it is legal. Also there is a new indirect concealment clause. This states that a single edged fixed blade worn in a sheath at your waist may be partialy covered by outer clothing. This is meaning that you may have a jacket covering the knife. However you may not have it covered by a shirt that can be tucked in or any type of sweat shirt or pullover. You also may not carry it in an inside the waist band type sheath or a shoulder rig.

A dirk or dagger may not be covered in any way.</font>
Click to expand...

This is not exactly the same as my reading of CA Penal Codes. A "dirk or dagger" is any fixed blade knife, and can not be concealed, regardless of length. There is no mention anywhere in CA Penal Codes of single or double-edged blades, that doesn't make a difference. A knife in a belt sheath, uncovered by clothing, is unconcealed, but it is not the only method of unconcealed carry, it is one example thereof. As far as a knife being partially covered, I think that's a grey area.

To answer the original question, you have to check case law and there are not often clear answers. You are lucky that you can carry any size folder concealed legally, so you don't have to worry about whether or not clipped in a pocket is considered concealed.


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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
Here is a listing of all the knife related laws for the state of CA, this list however does not include current case law and/ or findings. This list also does not include Federal Laws which also affect Ca residents.

Penal Code
626.10
12001.1
171b
653k
12020

BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE
7500.1
7590.1
7522
7582.2

EDUCATION CODE
48900
48915

May have missed one, but am pretty sure this is it.

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R.W.Clark

Proud Member : California Knifemakers Association
 
Killer Kane

R W Clark just listed the sections for you, so all you have to do to read them is go to www.findlaw.com and go to the listing for California laws and read the various sections.

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Dick
 
medusa....,
I don't know about CA, but I think Bernard Levine defines a dagger as having a double edge, and a dirk as a small dagger.
 
California State Penal Code 12020, which prohibits the concealed carry of a "dirk or dagger," defines a "dirk or dagger" as
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.</font>
Click to expand...

You can look up CA Penal Codes at www.leginfo.ca.gov You'll notice that there is no mention of length or single/double edge. A fixed-blade knife is a dirk or dagger, a manual folding knife is not.

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Jason aka medusaoblongata
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"Is not giving a need? Is not receiving mercy?" - Thus Spoke Zarathustra
"Cutting his throat is only a momentary pleasure and is bound to get you talked about." - Lazarus Long
"Knowledge is not made for understanding; it is made for cutting." - Michel Foucault
 
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