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Degree wedges

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Fuori, Mar 28, 2017.

  1. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
  2. jc57

    jc57 Gold Member Gold Member

    Nov 28, 2012
    Google for "CKTG Angle Guides"
     
  3. Rey HRH

    Rey HRH

    860
    Oct 6, 2014
    Fred Rowe, the poster that mentions them also sells them. The price is reasonable. I bought I set for myself from him.
     
  4. jll346

    jll346 Knife maker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 29, 2006
    Ditto
     
  5. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
    I Googled Fred Rowe wedge and all I could see on his site was a Bubble Jig. Was I on the right site? That looked interesting by the way.

    I was able to find the CKTG Angle Guides, so thank you for that. They are cheap enough I'll buy the ones from Fred Rowe as well if I can find them.

    What about the DMT angle guide? It seems they quite often break from the reviews, but would that be another option for helping my muscle memory?
     
  6. jll346

    jll346 Knife maker Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    May 29, 2006
    Fred is here on the forums. Mostly in the Maker's sections. Shoot him a PM. He is a great guy who I know will take care of you.
     
  7. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    You probably already own some clothespins and binderclips :)

     
  8. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    Are his wedges the same as shown in the bubble jig pictures ? Blunt tips or pointy tips?
    What is his price?
     
  9. ecallahan

    ecallahan Gold Member Gold Member

    625
    Mar 14, 2011
    I have a set from Fred. Just shoot him a PM as was mentioned.
     
  10. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
    While for homemade angle guides I just found the video below. Would this work with a 20 degree ESEE or Becker? Would I have to increase the thickness of the board? Could I use my DMT stones with this method?

    I'm still going to purchase the angle wedges mentioned above, but I just thought it was interesting.

    [video=youtube;bailuQUh2mY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bailuQUh2mY[/video]
     
  11. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
    Could you put a second one towards the tip, so you wouldn't have to lift it?
     
  12. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    Yup, it will work with anything,
    but its convex version, to get exact angle matching use the version pictured below

    Either use the sharpie/marker angle finding trick,

    Or you can do some measuring distances as shown in picture below
    and punch into
    calculator.net/triangle-calculator.html
    its just a right angle triangle, with rise being the height difference, and run being the distance from end of table

    Either shim the blade so it lays horizontal, and add that bit of height to the rise
    Or if the blade is laying angled, add the primary grind angle to the jig angle

    If the distance from edge of table, if the run, is too far , so you only have 1inch of stroke length ...
    well just shorten the rise, the height between end of table knife
    its and either raise the end of table (put a piece of wood on corner),
    lower the sliding block of wood (thinner stock)

    A tip from somebody who's used it
    Similarly, if the piece of wood that is the blade rest is moving, use a nail/screw to stop it


    The nail/backstop/height adjustment are not pictured in this image

    Once you figure out the positions (rise/run) write it down :)

    PaulSellersKnifeSharpeningSystem.png [​IMG]
     
    Ooops likes this.
  13. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
    That is fascinating! I'm still going to buy the wedges to teach myself to do it the normal way, but I love learning new tricks like the one above. Thank you for taking the time to post that.

    My only question is how would you prevent damaging the edge of the table?
     
  14. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    Do you mean lift the guide?

    I wouldn't change its position,
    the clip/guide is there to let you know when your angle is too low,
    as long as you're close to the angle, blade will get sharp
    but the easiest way to figure out what works is to try it with your practice knife,
    watch your hands, watch the blade/stone , gotta do it a few times to figure it out


    See, if the width of the blade changes as you move towards the tip,
    then adding a second binder clip, clipped exactly like the first,
    might change the angle towards the tip,
    so you might not be able to position it exactly...
    but its not that important
    lots of blades come from the factory with different tip angle due to hand sharpening,
    and as long as you're close enough to the angle it will work,
    and you'll learn to feel the edge balance on the stone at the correct angle


    You're better off just clipping in one spot, somewhere in the middle of the blade,
    so you can start sharpening the base at the guided angle,
    but you also have some guide on the stone when you start pivoting for the tip
    and then just rotate/pivot the blade as you reach the curved belly portion

    To maintain angle throughout the tip all you have to do is pivot the blade throughout the curved parts like this gif.
    The little green square indicates 90 degrees to the stone , and always finish the stroke on the stone (tip remains on stone)
    The key is to make sure the edge is contacting stone (look).
    If the stone is vertical,like in a sharpmaker, then merely pivoting 90 to the stone is comfortable.
    If stone is horizontal , you might throw in a little lifting of the handle for comfort.

    [​IMG]
    whether you're doing scrubbing passes or one direction only passes,
    just follow the curve, 90 to the stone, and when you do,
    look to see that the edge is contacting the stone,
    going away from yourself, look for daylight to diappear, shadow means contact

    yes this means tilting the handle a little or pressing the edge with your other hand
    but looking with your eyes is what you should focus on
    Here is an example of a very recent video
    [video=youtube;oRmcQ-MqbBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRmcQ-MqbBE[/video]
    If that doesn't feel right, you can always go vertical,
    by leaning your sharpening stone against a wall or book to make a bench stone sharmaker and just slice down the stone and pivot for tip, no handle lifting, finishing with tip on the stone (tip doesnt leave stone)
    [​IMG]
     
    Ooops likes this.
  15. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    So are they pointy or blunt tipped like in the bubblejig picture?
    What was the cost/shipping when you got them?
     
  16. Fuori

    Fuori

    625
    Oct 13, 2014
    ^ That makes a lot of sense. I didn't think about the thickness being different towards the tip, but they can be and that would throw it off. Thank you for posting those moving diagrams. I'm going to try a few different things and one of them will help get me a working edge on my knives.
     
  17. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    :)
    double up on the wood,
    instead of using actual table and a block of wood,
    use two blocks of wood, one longer block as the base (table)
    and one shorter to slide on top closer to edge for higher angle,
    further away from edge for lower angle

    or, tie a splint around your stone ,
    thats two sticks, left and a right, tied together on top and bottom ,
    pinching the stone in between,
    a bonafide stone holder,
    to extend the hypotenuse/length,
    so the size of the stone does not limit your angle range ,
    so all you do to change angle is adjust run,
    and you dont have to adjust rise/height

    can also just tie the stone to a board , and then adjust height for thickness ...
    or use your smart phone as an angle cube (there are free apps)


    also try not to rub too hard against the table, lean more on the knife than the table, the rubbing on the table is just to keep your angle

    can also pad the contact point,
    tape some paper/cardboard/folder on the edge or your table so there is no direct contact,
    cutting board... whatever you need to keep your table scratch free :)
    then drape some paper or ... over the edge of the real table,

    wood against wood, or wood against paper is better than abrasive against wood :)


    if you use board/on/board/on/board, you can use the 1/60 rule to estimate angle,
    so if you let 1 thickness of the board be your rise,
    then a run of 10 thicknesses of the board would give you a 10 degree angle
    20 thicknesses would give you 20 degree

    update: aww I got the rule wrong again, :) anyway,
    1 thickness rise 1 thickness run is 45 degrees
    1 thickness rise 2 thickness run is 25.5 degrees
    1 thickness rise 3 thickness run is 18.4 degrees
    1 thickness rise 4 thickness run is 14 degrees
    ...


    also maybe you add guard rails (or just a tie/rope) at the end of base/table to keep wood from slipping off
    sharpening can easily turn into a craft project :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  18. me2

    me2

    Oct 11, 2003
    I tried the jigs above a few times. The only downfall I found was stroke length. At really shallow angles, you can only use a small portion of the stone. There is also the issue of rubbing an abrasive stone against a table top. It's doable, but a bit fussy. I went back to my old angle guides. However, keep in mind I've been using them for nearly 20 years. I have a bit more practice with them. Old dogs and new tricks or something like that.
     

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