Delica 4 Wharncliffe; what do SD specialists think?

Knives are a cutting tool for me and I never view them as something for self-defense. That's what I carry a pistol for.

I mainly carry a knife for self-defense. Any other use is merely incidental.

As noted, any knife can be used for self-defense. I have a variety of knives that were specifically designed for such use such as the Spyderco Introvert, P'Kal, Karahawk & Yojimbo and a ZT750 Talon among others). I also still have an old serrated Sypderco Merlin Clipit hawkbill that I could use. However, I prefer to carry a Cara Cara 2 because it has a long sharp blade and only costs $20. So, it doesn't matter if I lose or ruin it BUT it will cut and stab into anything I choose to cut and stab with it.

When I think I need one, I'll carry a gun (legally) too, but guns are really a PITA to carry; heavy and difficult to conceal. A folder will fit easily in your front pocket. So, I always carry a knife but I also always carry a pen in my other pocket, which I could use too. It's always better to have other options apart from carrying/using a gun for SD. ;)
 
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Many, many people have used box cutters/retractable utility knives like Stanley knives as weapons, with much shorter/less "pointy" and less "combatively ideal" blades than the wharncliffe Delica. At the risk of being graphic, human flesh does not require a tactical combat knife to cut or penetrate. In any SD situation, hypothetical or otherwise, what is more important than the particular knife or tool is the person wielding it, and the particular situation.

Jim
 
These knife self defense threads are like clockwork too. Tell me, how many people do you personally know that have actually used a knife for self defense? If you have to pull a knife for self defense, just hope the other person doesn’t pull a gun. Just sayin’.

21 foot rule while often exaggerated and a rule is not a good name for it has shown that up close a knife can kill before a gun can be drawn. Though this doesn’t really apply to self defense.

@jstn

My issue with Janich who I greatly respect as a martial artist is that his system never addresses the issue that his knives don’t have a remote opener like a wave device and rely on inertia shake for the fastest possible draw. It can be hard to inertia shake a knife open if the attacker knows what he is doing and makes sure to get the drop on you. Maybe he is already hanging on your neck by the time you realize you need to defend yourself. (I know the whole awareness thing. I have never met someone who is permanently hyper vigiliant at all times)

In such circumstances even a waved knife can be very hard to draw. Reverse waving makes it marginally easier but a fixed blade knife is the obvious best choice if a knife is going to be what you use.
 
Maybe he is already hanging on your neck by the time you realize you need to defend yourself. (I know the whole awareness thing. I have never met someone who is permanently hyper vigiliant at all times)

Excellent point on being vigilant and the impossibility of ALWAYS BEING HYPER VIGILANT.

But remember, a whole lotta bad situations can totally be AVOIDED...that's the best for risk mitigation in the 5+ decades I've survived, ymmv.

But having said that, I think a Wharnie Delica is a good option for SD for the following reasons:

1. She's legal in a bunch of jurisdictions.
2. Non-threatening looking, but very effective in usage if trained up properly.
3. And my most favorite reason...Virtually no weight, no footprint.

If you've got average sized hands you can walk with your Delica "palmed."

While hiking, I've practiced having my Salt 2 clipped to the inside of the cuff of my outer shell and worked out ways to have it "at hand" almost immediately. On back trails when coming up on parties of younger yahoos, if I've spotted them in advance, I always have my Pacific or Atlantic in my palm, JIC.

I have the habit of using my Spydies like "worry stones" and I've gotten very good at casually drawing them out, turning them over and around in my palm, and depositing them back without anyone even realizing it. It's a form of practice and therapy <at the same time> for me. :)
 
Excellent point on being vigilant and the impossibility of ALWAYS BEING HYPER VIGILANT.

But remember, a whole lotta bad situations can totally be AVOIDED...that's the best for risk mitigation in the 5+ decades I've survived, ymmv.

But having said that, I think a Wharnie Delica is a good option for SD for the following reasons:

1. She's legal in a bunch of jurisdictions.
2. Non-threatening looking, but very effective in usage if trained up properly.
3. And my most favorite reason...Virtually no weight, no footprint.

If you've got average sized hands you can walk with your Delica "palmed."

While hiking, I've practiced having my Salt 2 clipped to the inside of the cuff of my outer shell and worked out ways to have it "at hand" almost immediately. On back trails when coming up on parties of younger yahoos, if I've spotted them in advance, I always have my Pacific or Atlantic in my palm, JIC.

I have the habit of using my Spydies like "worry stones" and I've gotten very good at casually drawing them out, turning them over and around in my palm, and depositing them back without anyone even realizing it. It's a form of practice and therapy <at the same time> for me. :)

We should be alert wherever we can of course. Lots of criminals use ruses to make you feel comfortable so they can get in close before they attack. So even if you are alert you might get taken in by a “hey can I just ask directions.” “Hey do you have a light?” “Hey i have some candy and puppies in the back of my van, you wanna touch one?”

I think the Wharncliffe Delica can make a fine self defense knife. Just you have to put an ugly zip tie mod on it for it to be equipped for that role. Or you can buy a wave mod from Wisemen.

One of these:
DSC05648__41854.1510771917.jpg
 
We should be alert wherever we can of course. Lots of criminals use ruses to make you feel comfortable so they can get in close before they attack. So even if you are alert you might get taken in by a “hey can I just ask directions.” “Hey do you have a light?” “Hey i have some candy and puppies in the back of my van, you wanna touch one?”

I think the Wharncliffe Delica can make a fine self defense knife. Just you have to put an ugly zip tie mod on it for it to be equipped for that role. Or you can buy a wave mod from Wisemen.

One of these:
DSC05648__41854.1510771917.jpg

I like the ring for retrival out of your pocket, but it's a tradeoff for size/concealability that I wouldn't want to compromise.

Plus, I've never been a fan of pinky holes on SD knives. Looks like a good way to break your little finger....this is coming from a guy who's been in a grand total of ZERO knife fights. :rolleyes:
 
These knife self defense threads are like clockwork too. Tell me, how many people do you personally know that have actually used a knife for self defense? If you have to pull a knife for self defense, just hope the other person doesn’t pull a gun. Just sayin’.


You would be surprised at how often knives get used for self defense, or for assaults and murders.

I've displayed a knife in a situation that seemed to be turning bad... it would have been a 4 on one fight. I ignored the comments (that they were going to rob and stomp me), and slowly took a 4 inch bladed folder out, flicked it open, and started cleaning/trimming my nails... the most aggressive of the commenters (who was closing distance toward me while mentioning stomping me and taking my wallet) almost fell over backwards and had a shoe come half off.

It was almost comical. I will note, I never responded verbally, or made any move or gesture toward them.
No one called the police (Which likely would have happened with a displayed firearm).

It should be noted, that I am 6'1 inches, big beard, and 350 lbs. If I had charged him, or put my fists up, he might have changed his mind as well.... but I have lost a 'friendly' fight with multiple people when I underestimated the one who choked me unconscious. Fights against multiples can easily take away what ever strength advantage you have....



I have occasion to see many police reports and often coroner reports with autopsy photos.


I would have to say, that I get significantly more reports involving knives over guns, although I get a lot of those as well.

The fastest knife induced death I have seen was with a filet/boning kitchen knife. It was eventually deemed a self defense case. (Though the surviving party lost a significant part of a year in custody...not my client).


I've also seen people using knives have them taken away, and loose the fight badly, with almost no damage taken by the other party (minor cut requiring no stitches at all).

From demonstrations, I've never seen a warnclif design fail to penetrate as deeply as a spear point, dagger, or upswept tip against the same target.

If it has a sharp point, and sharp edge, it will cause injury.

I do have to say, I dont believe any of the serious injuries or deaths I've seen have been with high end knives, or high speed, low drag operator knives.

Steak knives, gas station cheapies, and hunting knives are the norm.

I've had family and friends on the receiving end of knife wounds from others.


All my knife injuries have been self inflicted. I know how easily a sharp knife cuts to the bone, and severs nerves!!!


I like knives. I carry knives that I believe would be effective if needed (and some that would not, like slow opening non locking slip joint blades).

I'm not a trained knife fighter. Im not a ninja, or an expert of any kind.
But I carry a firearm everywhere I'm allowed by law, and usually several knives that I believe would be effective. One or two fixed blades (often a set, one right hand side, one left hand side). And a gun, strong side.
 
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I like the ring for retrival out of your pocket, but it's a tradeoff for size/concealability that I wouldn't want to compromise.

Plus, I've never been a fan of pinky holes on SD knives. Looks like a good way to break your little finger....this is coming from a guy who's been in a grand total of ZERO knife fights. :rolleyes:

Actually I tried one of the rings and didn’t really like it. I was only showing the picture for the wave device.

Ringed knives is another topic altogether. Though I typically like ringed knives I didn’t like the way this particular one felt.
 
I guess I'm in the minority when I view my pocket knife as a tool, just as I do my wrenches and screwdrivers. Again, if I feel the need to protect my family or myself from harm and eminent danger, I'm going to do so with a firearm, not a work tool. So let's say you had to stab someone in self defense and that someone died. It's gonna look bad for you in the court of law, self-defense or not. Especially when those other 3 buddies all say that you attacked them unprovoked. Whether it was true or not, your lawyer is gonna have a hayday getting you out of that pickle.
 
I guess I'm in the minority when I view my pocket knife as a tool, just as I do my wrenches and screwdrivers. Again, if I feel the need to protect my family or myself from harm and eminent danger, I'm going to do so with a firearm, not a work tool. So let's say you had to stab someone in self defense and that someone died. It's gonna look bad for you in the court of law, self-defense or not. Especially when those other 3 buddies all say that you attacked them unprovoked. Whether it was true or not, your lawyer is gonna have a hayday getting you out of that pickle.

In Canada and even for many Americans a firearm is not an option. In Canada just defending yourself is throwing yourself at the mercy of the courts.
 
I guess I'm in the minority when I view my pocket knife as a tool, just as I do my wrenches and screwdrivers. Again, if I feel the need to protect my family or myself from harm and eminent danger, I'm going to do so with a firearm, not a work tool. So let's say you had to stab someone in self defense and that someone died. It's gonna look bad for you in the court of law, self-defense or not. Especially when those other 3 buddies all say that you attacked them unprovoked. Whether it was true or not, your lawyer is gonna have a hayday getting you out of that pickle.

I think most of us on BF look at knives as primarily matter separating tools...

And as regular as the SD posts are, the replies with the theme of "bringing a knife to a gunfight" always ensue also...

Guns are tools also, right?

A Delica can open a blister pack, peel an apple, trim your toenails AND function as a decent SD option. They're very versatile tools in that way.

Have you ever tried to trim your toenails with .45 Long Colt?...on purpose?

Plus SD isn't always human vs. human ending up with someone getting sued to death...it's unpredictable.

My cousin suffered 247 stitches and lost the tip of his pinky from an attack by a St. Bernard dog...

He told me that if he had "one of those 'hole in the blade' knives" like I always carried that he could have gotten the beast off of him because he was basically pinned down with the dog straddling him. He could still punch and poke at the dog but the dog wasn't affected by it. I gifted him one of my Enduras. :)
 
I guess I'm in the minority when I view my pocket knife as a tool, just as I do my wrenches and screwdrivers. Again, if I feel the need to protect my family or myself from harm and eminent danger, I'm going to do so with a firearm, not a work tool. So let's say you had to stab someone in self defense and that someone died. It's gonna look bad for you in the court of law, self-defense or not. Especially when those other 3 buddies all say that you attacked them unprovoked. Whether it was true or not, your lawyer is gonna have a hayday getting you out of that pickle.

I don’t think your the minority at all. But your answering a question that wasn’t being asked so you seem like the minority.

As for a a wharncliffe for self defense; judging by my reaction to going through a Christmas gift box and thinking I accidentally stabbed myself with an endura... a wharncliffe Delica should work just fine. Personally I prefer the saber ground Delica/Endura’s as everyday users/improvised self defense tools.
 
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You would be surprised at how often knives get used for self defense, or for assaults and murders.

I've displayed a knife in a situation that seemed to be turning bad... it would have been a 4 on one fight. I ignored the comments (that they were going to rob and stomp me), and slowly took a 4 inch bladed folder out, flicked it open, and started cleaning/trimming my nails... the most aggressive of the commenters almost fell over backwards and had a shoe come half off.

It was almost comical. I will note, I never responded verbally, or made any move or gesture toward them.
No one calls the police (Which likely would have happened with a displayed firearm).

I second this.

As a LEO and in my civilian life, I have always tried to avoid conflict if possible or escalating if I couldn't avoid it. However, I have quickly defused a potentially violent encounter by just pulling out a knife (not even a big one). There's something about a knife that will just stop "most" people in their tracks. They want nothing to do w/being the target of one and will just leave. No screams of terror or cops called.

IMO, this is a very successful "use" of a knife in "self-defense" because it deterred the conflict entirely w/o creating a riot and w/o actually cutting or stabbing anyone.

A gun can be used to defuse a violent confrontation, as well, but, as noted above, all hell will break lose if you pull a gun in public and, even if you are legally licensed to carry it, you can be certain that the cops will be called and that you "could be" subject to a felony stop spread-eagled on the ground w/guns pointed at you until the gun is removed from your possession, interrogated about your conduct and possibly arrested for illegally "brandishing" the weapon (at a minimum), which would result in the gun being confiscated and held in evidence in the process. Not a good thing.

Knives, generally, do not create such a problem but still provide you with the ability to defuse a potentially violent situation w/o need to use the knife and w/o heightened LEO focus that comes w/a 10-32 -- the radio code for a "man w/a gun."
 
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These knife self defense threads are like clockwork too. Tell me, how many people do you personally know that have actually used a knife for self defense? If you have to pull a knife for self defense, just hope the other person doesn’t pull a gun. Just sayin’.
I agree, it's a pipe dream some have and want the nastiest tool they can buy. Any knife you have will suffice. The other 99.999 percent use of the knife would be better money spent with something more practical.
 
I agree, it's a pipe dream some have and want the nastiest tool they can buy. Any knife you have will suffice. The other 99.999 percent use of the knife would be better money spent with something more practical.

Pipe dream it is. I don't believe that pulling a knife will deter someone with bad intentions. Brandishing a knife could get you shot or ganged up on....something to think about. A knife is a tool in my eyes. I'd rather have a bat than a knife any day of the week, but a firearm trumps all.
 
Very true. Pull a knife get shot. I read about people carrying their gun where legal. Well thugs don't really care if the gun they have is legal to carry. I agree a knife is a must have.
 
My EDC blade is a Steel Warrior saddlehorn trapper with stag.
At my age, knife fighting is for the movies.
I'm not a good Ninja.
Situational awareness is as valuable as a weapon.
I follow the rule of S's:
"Don't do Stupid things in Stupid places with Stupid people."
I carry a firearm for people that don't.
The world is a crazy place.
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
 
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