delica SE VG10 and the sea

spyken

spyken

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Just got back from a couple of days of sailing n seakayaking. For this trip, I wanted to test out the Delica VG10 spydercoedge and how well the steel survived in a saltwater environment. Ok, here are my observations:

(1) VG10 does not survive in a saltwater environment. Prior to my trip, I wiped the blade down with my tuff-cloth. After paddling for 1 hour (the knife was stored in a mesh zippered compartment of my PFD and was fully immersed in the sea many times), more than 15 rust spots started appearing on the blade, lockbar and the tang. I had to scrub these spots out with a dish scrubbing pad and rinse it off with fresh water after paddling for 8 hours.

(2) edge holding - the Delica was hair-poppin sharp before my trip. After making 3 slicing cuts through 1/2" nylon rigging lines and opening a couple of dried fruit plastic packs, the edge was no longer hair-popping sharp. still scrapes hair off a little though. The portion I'm using as a reference point is the final 3-4 mm of the serrated edge.

(3) I believe the corrosion affects the edge as well. The knife seemed less sharp (still VERY SHARP) after its saltwater paddling bath.

So my conclusion is that VG10 is unsuitable for use at sea. Looks like I have to try/wait for comments on Benchmade's H1 steel as found in the HS100 diving/paddling knife. Or dendritic cobalt/talonite/stellite if I can ever afford it :rolleyes:

spyken
 
Well, if you are going out in salt water, the 440 series steels actually become good steels. Try out a BM Mini Griptillian. It's got 440C steel that should hold up better in salt water conditions. On dry land it's edge holding won't even come close to VG-10 though.
-Kevin
 
I may steer towards Spyderco's AUS6 SPOT - anyone have any experience with AUS6 as used by Spyderco specifically?
 
Hi Spyken!

It´s not that i don´t belive you in your statement about rust and VG-10,i take your word for it. It´s just that i have used my Fallkniven F1 made of VG-10 in seawater environments when i have being sea fishing,and i have never seen any single rust spot on it. I have the Teflon coated model that protects the blade itself,so maybe that explains why the blade have not being exposed to rust,but the edge is left uncoated. The edge is the roughest part of the knife,and the part that fastest gets attacked by rust. But it has not got any rust spots at all,eaven though that i have not wiped the knife clean after having it in seawater when clearing out fish. I have just replaced it in my kydex sheath,and not until the next day i have cleaned it and let it dry.

On parts of the blade the Teflon coating has fell of,leaving the blade uncoated,and those uncoated parts has not got any rust either.So far in my experince,VG-10 has being one of the best stainless steel i have ever used. It´s strange how your knife has gone so bad by seawater,when my VG-10 blade has remained unaffected. Does anyone have any clue about this?
Manowar
 
manowar, did you swim with your knife? for me, I was totally immersed in the water (switched kayaks mid-route) and swam with the PFD. I wasn't surprised at the corrosion (all steels corrode/rust), but the speed at which corrosion developed - only 1 hour. however, I don't think there's any pitting yet.

yes, I would like more thoughts too - I was hoping that VG10 would be my steel choice at sea. I was thinking that if the knife could take immersion/splashes for say 10 hours at one stretch before I can rinse it in fresh water, it would then be ideal for my purposes.
 
By all means buy a SPOT. I hear it is a really good neck knife. For saltwater purposes though I don't think AUS 6 is going to cut it.
-Kevin
 
By all means buy a SPOT. I hear it is a really good neck knife. For saltwater purposes though I don't think AUS 6 is going to cut it.
-Kevin
 
Originally posted by Morgoth412
By all means buy a SPOT. I hear it is a really good neck knife. For saltwater purposes though I don't think AUS 6 is going to cut it.
-Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin, why do you think that? AUS6 is the most rust/corrosion resistant among the AUS6/8/10 or 440A/B/C series, which are in turn more corrosion resistant than ATS34/154CM. At least that's my understanding.

I'm thinking AUS6 also due to the fact that the VG10 SPOTs with new sheaths don't seem to be out yet....
 
You sure about that buddy? I was under the impression AUS6 had only fairly good rust protection (Read better than VG-10) compared to the 440 series which is the best at this. Now 440C isn't the best out of the 440 series for rust prevention (not sure but I think it's 440B?) but it will hold the best edge out of that steel group. I could be wrong about AUS-6 though. Live and learn right?
-Kevin
 
yup, AUS6 has the least amount of carbon, am not sure about the chromium element though. SOG's seal series uses AUS6 or its equivalent, 440A.
 
I do heaps of sea kayaking and tend to keep my knives (BK7 and SAK) in a dry bag until I reach camp. I do have a Benchmade River Rescue knife made from 440C clipped to my PFD and lately I've had a Buck Diamonback sport knife slung around my neck. Both of these will rust if I don't dry them before putting them away at night. Neither of them will rust in an hour. I occasionaly have to use the BK7 for 'wet work' like hacking through thorn bushes to get to the riverbank - so I have it's dry bag strapped to the back of the boat for easy access. The main uses for the BM and Buck are to cut bait if I'm trailing a line (fishing), to place in my teeth if I wish to appear psychotic to discourage conversation from passing motorboat tourists (a 3-day growth and wild sult encrusted hair helps here as well)and to fulfill that deep primal need we all have to be within reach of a knife, anytime, anywhere. I've got a couple of diving knives that never seem to rust, but they are truly ugly, hard to sharp hombres and I will not deal with them.
 
Stainless steel can rust depending on composition especially carbon - 440 has three different types differing only in carbon content, A has the lowest and C the highest. However there is one problem (quality control) that will cause rusting especially pitting . If the blade has been ground, polished or bead blasted with the same equipment used to handle carbon steel, bits of carbon steel will be imbedded on the surface of the stainless ,these will rust and the rusting then continue into the stainless. Stainless steel should be given a passivation treatment. This treatment , usually with nitric acid, will remove the bits of carbon steel and also build up a thicker protective oxide layer. The difference , with or without passivation, can be dramatic and explains why one blade will rust and the other not rust with the same steel.
 
440C is the worst for rust as it has the most Carbon out of the 440 series knives, though some classify D2 as 440XL or something, so that would be even worse!

I would look at 420J2, 420HC, 425 Modified or perhaps 440a for saltwater type enviromnts.

Obviously a ceramic, Stellite or Ti knife would be better... But costs the earth!

Try BG42, its a very very clean steel and my BG42 blades simply won't rust for me!:)
 
Hey Spyken, there is a rumor about an H-1 Delica (lock & blade) in the works.

sal
 
I have carried several brands of knives and tools in salt water while wade fishing. Of all, the Victorinox have held up the best and never showed any signs of rust. The Leatherman tools rust some but after several hours in the water don't have may spots of rust and are cleaned up pretty well. Spyderco folders of various makes all seem to spot somewhat. Benchmade Eclipse didn't fare any better spotting pretty badly. I have carried Gerbers' river knife with the plastic sheeth. It showed no signs of spotting. Saltwater is just tough on any steel and my reels show signs of it's effects and need continuous maintenance. Just too much damn fun being in there with the fish.

That's me, wrinkled and happy.
 
AUS-6 is very rust-resistant (at least as long as it's not bead-blasted like most of CRKT's AUS-6 blades).
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Hey Spyken, there is a rumor about an H-1 Delica (lock & blade) in the works.

sal
Click to expand...

H1? :eek: you mean like in benchmade's H1?

Actually, what is the composition of H1 and how does it compare to the other steels?

I used my sharpmaker to touch up my friend's benchmade river knife to shaving sharp (he was so pleased), but I think the edge holding of H1 is not so good cos it lost its shaving sharp edge after a little bit of use.
 
Manowar - another part of the puzzle for you is temperature. Although others have raised valid points regarding residual carbon steel left on the stainless blade, as well as RC hardness and heat treat also being a factor in rust resistance, temperature cannot be ignored. I see that you are in Sweden, and Spyken is in Singapore. I would imagine that there is a significant temperature difference between the ocean where you fish and where Spyken kayaks. Chemical reaction rates roughly double for each 10 degree (celsius) increase in temperature. So rust will form much faster in a tropical environment.
 
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