Delrin

I have used Delrin (Acetal, POM, etc) in engineered parts for 2 decades. We use purchased components (mostly bushings), machined components (part fixtures, slides, etc), and a lot of our own molded components (bushings, levers, slides, plastic springs, spring holders, etc). It is by far the most stable, durable (against wear resistance), and non-reactive polymer we use. We use just about all of popular polymers (PP, PP+glass, PP+talc, PC, Nylon, Nylon+glass, ABS, UHMW, PE, PTFE, TPE, etc).

Delrin is a food safe material (because it's non-porous and doesn't seep anything), it's non-reactive, it is HIGHLY wear resistant with very unique properties that make it stand alone as an engineered plastic. UHMW comes close in some properties but doesn't have the complete suite of properties (it's harder to mold and machine, and a bit softer than Delrin but still extremely wear resistant). I have mechanisms that have Delrin parts that have been under hundreds of pounds of load for over a decade and don't show measurable creep.

There are plastics that off gas and shrink for that reason or others (PVC is a big one) and plastics that react with the environment (such as nylon which is hydrophilic and will absorb water into it's structure, changing it's properties). Delrin doesn't do any of this. It is in a class of highly-pure non-reactive plastics with UHMW and PTFE that just don't react with their environment. These plastics don't even accept super glue or paint, and work great in a greased application because the oil doesn't integrate into the Delrin and degrade or weaken it like will with some other plastics. It is naturally UV resistant, does well in sustained low-heat applications, and handles stress in a unique way where it will not deform under repeated loads.

Delrin is like the MagnaCut of engineered plastics. The only thing it lacks is high UTS (ultimate tensile strength) such as Glass Filled Nylon (FRN) will have.

I'm guessing if you had knife scales that shrank they are not made of Delrin. It's possible, I don't have experience with many decades old Delrin parts, but parts that are 10-20 years old are still extremely dimensionally stable.
Because of it's non-reactive nature, Delrin will not release anything out of it's structure and will also not absorb anything into itself.

I couldn't find the document you reference above, but are you sure it is not talking about molding shrinkage? All plastics will shrink when undergoing a phase change during molding, is it possible this is what you were talking about?
Plastics (and most all materials) also have a thermal expansion value. They will grow/shrink with changes in temperature. Delrin is very stable but still has some thermal expansion.
The last property the document may have been referencing is creep. This is movement of a polymer over time when a sustained load is applied. Again Delrin has very low creep but it does still creep. I would not imagine knife scales would put any force on a polymer that would cause creep, aside from possibly around the pins but the creep will stop once the material moves enough to reduce the force on it.
 
I have used Delrin (Acetal, POM, etc) in engineered parts for 2 decades. We use purchased components (mostly bushings), machined components (part fixtures, slides, etc), and a lot of our own molded components (bushings, levers, slides, plastic springs, spring holders, etc). It is by far the most stable, durable (against wear resistance), and non-reactive polymer we use. We use just about all of popular polymers (PP, PP+glass, PP+talc, PC, Nylon, Nylon+glass, ABS, UHMW, PE, PTFE, TPE, etc).

Delrin is a food safe material (because it's non-porous and doesn't seep anything), it's non-reactive, it is HIGHLY wear resistant with very unique properties that make it stand alone as an engineered plastic. UHMW comes close in some properties but doesn't have the complete suite of properties (it's harder to mold and machine, and a bit softer than Delrin but still extremely wear resistant). I have mechanisms that have Delrin parts that have been under hundreds of pounds of load for over a decade and don't show measurable creep.

There are plastics that off gas and shrink for that reason or others (PVC is a big one) and plastics that react with the environment (such as nylon which is hydrophilic and will absorb water into it's structure, changing it's properties). Delrin doesn't do any of this. It is in a class of highly-pure non-reactive plastics with UHMW and PTFE that just don't react with their environment. These plastics don't even accept super glue or paint, and work great in a greased application because the oil doesn't integrate into the Delrin and degrade or weaken it like will with some other plastics. It is naturally UV resistant, does well in sustained low-heat applications, and handles stress in a unique way where it will not deform under repeated loads.

Delrin is like the MagnaCut of engineered plastics. The only thing it lacks is high UTS (ultimate tensile strength) such as Glass Filled Nylon (FRN) will have.

I'm guessing if you had knife scales that shrank they are not made of Delrin. It's possible, I don't have experience with many decades old Delrin parts, but parts that are 10-20 years old are still extremely dimensionally stable.
Because of it's non-reactive nature, Delrin will not release anything out of it's structure and will also not absorb anything into itself.

I couldn't find the document you reference above, but are you sure it is not talking about molding shrinkage? All plastics will shrink when undergoing a phase change during molding, is it possible this is what you were talking about?
Plastics (and most all materials) also have a thermal expansion value. They will grow/shrink with changes in temperature. Delrin is very stable but still has some thermal expansion.
The last property the document may have been referencing is creep. This is movement of a polymer over time when a sustained load is applied. Again Delrin has very low creep but it does still creep. I would not imagine knife scales would put any force on a polymer that would cause creep, aside from possibly around the pins but the creep will stop once the material moves enough to reduce the force on it.
^ This..... I will add that in my industry, you have lots of different professions. (engineers, sales, purchasing, accounting, marketing, etc) Often, you will find that people just misuse words.
It's possible that the "Delrin" I call it Acetal, wasn't actually That material at all, but something else entirely.
 
"Delrin" is like Kleenex to the Acetal or POM "Facial Tissue".
Delrin is Dupont's trademark name for Acetal.

There are also many types of Delrin or Acetal. I believe the co-polymer version with glass is what the new Spyderco "FRCP" is made of.
 
Bit more on the shrinking black handles -

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/79451-another-camillus-pocketknife/ (post 4) -


Frank Trzaska was kind enough to supply some further information on this knife for me.
"The knife you describe is a 14Q38 model made during and after the war by Camillus. It was one of the very few made with brass liners and what they called FS Stag handles (Foster Grant company). It was made for the Navy Department as outlined in the ad they ran in 1944. The run was started in April 1944 so the restrictions on brass might have been eased by that time or someone got the approval to use what was sitting in storage at the cutlery. That model was used for quite awhile after the war as well so it may have been made in the 1950's too. The three line stamping does sound post war to me."

Fosterene is the name for Foster Grant's Styrene product. Foster Grant Had connections to Camillus, Schrade, and Imperial through Albert Baer.

You can see Fosterene handled knives here (especially page 9) - http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/articles/Pottery and Royal Poincianas.pdf . It is or is really close in composition to those shrinky Camillus handles pictured a few posts back.
 
I dont have any special industry knowledge or anything, I just have used and seen Delrin handled knives for a long time. I have never seen any Delrin shrinkage or anything else, it seems like really stable stuff. A little soft so it gets dinged up over time sometimes, and gets cracked around pins on some knives. Other than that, I love Delrin on knives. I have had a Case Trapper in yellow Delrin for years, and it has survived many a chore from farmwork to the trapline and I have never seen any issues with the knife other than a small stable pin crack after years of use.
 
Yeah, nah.
I use a fair amount of Delrin to make precision bushings and other fabricated parts. I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that if you have noticeable shrinkage, you don't have Delrin.
DING DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner! While all the Google-fu and the keyboard fencing is very impressive, it is a large leap to think that anytime someone sees a plasticky or resin type handle that looks like Delrin that it is always Delrin. I have no doubt that manufacturers switched products from time to time while making knives over decades to test other products, make a new price point, or to make manufacturing easier.

It is silly to think that every batch of Delran is formulated exactly the same as I am sure manufacturers and users have requested from time to time formulations to suit their application the best. The point is that there are a lot of variables here.

Before I called someone a liar based on a resin/plastic application used in the manufacturer of a knife, I would want to know who EXACTLY made the knife (not just the name ON the knife), when it was made, and some type of literature that no doubt came with the knife that said exactly what the handle material was.
 
That's a molded styrene product, it took the place of celluloid for a while before Delrin took it's place. It was noted for shrinkage. Old discussion - https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/cabone-handles.948411/ . Post #6 shows the Delrin scales from the same era, note the different jigging pattern. As mentioned, Delrin doesn't shrink to a noticeable degree.
I see the 1965 Camillus catalog says "stag" for the #1047 Whitler slabs. I assume that means 'Brownstag' which was their trademark name for the stuff that proceeded their use of Delrin? And.....it shrinks like crazy according to everything I read. I need to see a later catalog of what the knives looked like with Delrin. I concede the shrinkage in Delrin must be minimal, but not used in '64 or '65......at least on the #1047 Whitler.

I'm just happy for now that I have a period knife like the one I have ruined and the added bonus of a later (90's Whitler) that actually has some value. On eBay, the two knives run about the same value.....I think primarily because you can find the light brown, one rivet slab knives in much better overall condition than the 60's Whitlers with the 'stag' handles.

Vit has the definitive pics of all the aforementioned knives. Beautiful collection!

Kevin
 
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Camillus Delrin from about 1970
k252pQm.jpg
KaY003K.jpg


Made to look like the brown bone they used
IYjSYMz.jpg


This is Camillus Staglon
XUSlrPE.jpg


Some Camillus black composite handles from the 1940s and 50s
YfGmtE1.jpg
 
Camillus Delrin from about 1970
k252pQm.jpg
KaY003K.jpg


Made to look like the brown bone they used
IYjSYMz.jpg


This is Camillus Staglon
XUSlrPE.jpg


Some Camillus black composite handles from the 1940s and 50s
YfGmtE1.jpg
My '90s Camillus Whitler looks like the above Delrin. That material seems to be very stable and attractive. So was 'Brownstag' a real Camillus term? Is that what would have been on a '64/'65 Whitler? Was it one of the forerunner plastics that led up to Delrin?

Their catalog back then only says 'stag', which doesn't tell much at all.

Kevin
 
Many older product descriptions used "stag" to mean anything that was jigged in a certain way, as in stagged bone handles.....
Brownstag was something made up by Camillus after WW2 before Delrin came about. It was just jigged imitation bone, most likely molded styrene. There was also something called Cabone (which was I think another name Camillus used for Delrin with slightly different jigging and dye in the late 60s / early 70s), and Staglon was also called Indian Stag for a while.
 
Many older product descriptions used "stag" to mean anything that was jigged in a certain way, as in stagged bone handles.....
Brownstag was something made up by Camillus after WW2 before Delrin came about. It was just jigged imitation bone, most likely molded styrene. There was also something called Cabone (which was I think another name Camillus used for Delrin with slightly different jigging and dye in the late 60s / early 70s), and Staglon was also called Indian Stag for a while.
Well, that's not the least bit confusing....;)

Kevin
 
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