Demko's Scorpion Lock:Inspired by a Western Cutlery patent?

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Frotier76

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Let me begin by saying that I love the concept of Andrew Demko's design called the Scorpion Lock.It's a bit of a refreshing approach these days to these stout/grip enforced lock designs putting some creative against omega spring based designs.Spending some time with some with my Cold Steel AD-15 and came to the conclusion that it's a reverse engineered lockback.In terms of the reversal of the pivot point to lift the bar and of course you pull up where the bolt interacts with the blade instead.

Though modified and brought into the modern knife era for use I see a lot of similarities between Andrew's design...and an old patented one from long ago.Here's the patent...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4040181A/en

This design was created for Western's lockback line back in the 70's for their WestLock models.The design was created to house the lockback spring in a cavity to shield off dirt build up and resist the elements as one whole single piece.You'll also notice the pivot point sits much higher than other lockbacks.Reversing the pivot point on the Scorpion Lock makes this lock operate in a completely different manner.The original design by Lawrence Johnson had limitations in it's space eating design for a lockback so this is why Andrew mills out the yoke(lockback lever really) to allow the blade to seat deeper in the handle.Going this route obviously required a heavily coiled spring in the cavity region for the yoke's resistance at lifting it upwards.

I like the design of the Scorpion Lock altogether but as an older guy it's something retro I familiarize it with greatly.But a design completed dreamed up out of thin air?...it certainly is not.
 
Rykjeklut said:
It reminds me a whole lot about the CRKT Offbeat/Crawford lock.
Click to expand...

It could be quite possible Andrew borrowed from both designers considering the lift principle of Crawford's design and Lawrence Johnson's cavity/concealed spring approach.Now I've seen this Crawford concept done before but it was many years ago.United Cutlery did this under the Rigid brand back in the early 1990's,unknown if it was licensed by Pat Crawford to use or not.Here's a link with some pictures of it...

https://www.allaboutpocketknives.co...d-metal-locking-blade-thumb-stud-knife-in-box
 
No lock designs are dreamed up out of thin air, obviously. I’m not sure what point the OP is trying to make here. I’d bet money that Demko had not seen that particular patent or lock, however, since the similarities are almost strictly limited to “it is a lock mounted on the back that engages with a notch in the tang” which also describes regular backlocks, strap locks, tri-ad locks...

The scorpion lock is about as dissimilar to the linked patent as spyderco’s ball-bearing lock is to a button lock. They might engage in the same general location, but the operation and impact on the handle design / machining is wholly different.
 
unwisefool said:
Maybe I'm not seeing it, but that patent doesn't look anything like a scorpion lock
Click to expand...

I'll elaborate...

*If you grab the yoke of the Scorpion Lock and pull back to unlock look at the bottom jimped area and you'll see it cock forward.At locking point and closure that piece it comes flush to the liners.

*Most people are not used to seeing anything move beyond the point of a lockback's disengagement point that you press down on.If you ever handle a S-532 and S-534 by Western Cutlery you'll see the whole design cock forward if you look at the bottom bolster area on opening the blade.On closure and lock-up of course it lines up perfectly to the brass liners and bolsters.

An easily visual oversight that people have with the Scorpion Lock is they possibly perceive this torx screw just past the yoke is just a hinge for the yoke to move up and down.It's not...it's all one piece construction.That torx screw is a just a reversed lockback pivot point so that you have to pull back on the yoke to unlock the blade.

It's Lawrence Johnson's WestLock design just reverse engineered to work in a new way.
 
the Scorpion lock is used by lifting up on the front portion while the image you linked functions like any back lock with you pressing down on the backside of a lock bar again not really that similar.
 
Dang,I thought Andrew's scorpion lock was something totally new and original but after
seeing the CRKT Offbeat(which I forgot it existed) I wouldn't find it very surprising that
his design was inspired by other locks he has seen before...Still though it is definitely a
a neat locking mechanism that would be comparable to the compression lock when it
comes to being able to fidget with easily.
 
In the sense that the Johnson patent and the Demko patent both have spring-tensioned lock bars that interface with a keyway cut into the blade, yes, they're similar. But there are some pretty substantial differences: levering the lockbar to release rather than pulling up; redundant safety pin; ability to lock both closed and open...
 
With Western long out of business, and CRKT making goofy toys I think however the AD15 and Demko wound up with that lock its far stronger and superior to those others;those others aren't machined from 1 piece of aircraft aluminum,either,and surely aren't as massive.
 
Although similar in concept/function, comparing the Offbeat lock to the Scorpion lock would be like comparing a BB gun to a 50cal.

Also not really seeing the specific comparison to the WestLock. I mean, saying it is "reverse engineered to work in a new way", you could compare it to any backlock.
 
jlauffer said:
Although similar in concept/function, comparing the Offbeat lock to the Scorpion lock would be like comparing a BB gun to a 50cal.

Also not really seeing the specific comparison to the WestLock. I mean, saying it is "reverse engineered to work in a new way", you could compare it to any backlock.
Click to expand...

The Crawford backlock is to a backlock what a framelock is to a linerlock: integrates the sprung lockbar into the frame itself. The Scorpion lock is definitely more evolutionary.
 
Frotier76 said:
Let me begin by saying that I love the concept of Andrew Demko's design called the Scorpion Lock.It's a bit of a refreshing approach these days to these stout/grip enforced lock designs putting some creative against omega spring based designs.Spending some time with some with my Cold Steel AD-15 and came to the conclusion that it's a reverse engineered lockback.In terms of the reversal of the pivot point to lift the bar and of course you pull up where the bolt interacts with the blade instead.

Though modified and brought into the modern knife era for use I see a lot of similarities between Andrew's design...and an old patented one from long ago.Here's the patent...

https://patents.google.com/patent/US4040181A/en

This design was created for Western's lockback line back in the 70's for their WestLock models.The design was created to house the lockback spring in a cavity to shield off dirt build up and resist the elements as one whole single piece.You'll also notice the pivot point sits much higher than other lockbacks.Reversing the pivot point on the Scorpion Lock makes this lock operate in a completely different manner.The original design by Lawrence Johnson had limitations in it's space eating design for a lockback so this is why Andrew mills out the yoke(lockback lever really) to allow the blade to seat deeper in the handle.Going this route obviously required a heavily coiled spring in the cavity region for the yoke's resistance at lifting it upwards.

I like the design of the Scorpion Lock altogether but as an older guy it's something retro I familiarize it with greatly.But a design completed dreamed up out of thin air?...it certainly is not.
Click to expand...

It is essentially a lock based on the concept of the back lock. So is the ti-lock(except backwards and coming off the blade), the strong lock on the buck marksman and even those pin hole locks you see on Italian Stilettos.
 
What I'm implying is that Lawrence Johnson's Westlock patent served as the blueprint for his Scorpion Lock if you will.Sounds crazy I know but keep in mind we're talking about a man that updated a very common lockback design and re-named it the Tri-Ad lock so you have to consider here the man is into lockbacks.

The Westlock patent was 1 piece construction very much like the Scorpion Lock is.It was just a lockback design but interesting as an alternate design by Western and practical as far as deterring crap from building up in your knife and affecting operation. Both designs possess a spring in a cavity in the bottom portion of the handle though seated differently.Most likely the stronger spring design was used by Andrew because he chose to reverse the pivot position to generate the higher tension of the 'yoke' as he calls this exposed/flow through lockback lever.I call it reverse engineered because you grab at the top of it to unlock...but still runs off the Westlock's specific design.You have to stop looking at spot where you'd press down on Lawrence Johnson's lockback design and imagine it covered by the liners/scales and move that pivot pin way down.Add the ability to grab the lockbar itself and pull it up..and you have the Scorpion Lock.
 
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Frotier76 said:
You have to stop looking at spot where you'd press down on Lawrence Johnson's lockback design and imagines it covered by the liners/scales and move that pivot pin way down.Add the ability to grab the lockbar itself and pull it up..and you have the Scorpion Lock.
Click to expand...

But wouldn't that pretty much be true of any lockback, not just Johnsons?
 
Frotier76 said:
What I'm implying is that Lawrence Johnson's Westlock patent served as the blueprint for his Scorpion Lock if you will.Sounds crazy I know but keep in mind we're talking about a man that updated a very common lockback design and re-named it the Tri-Ad lock so you have to consider here the man is into lockbacks.

The Westlock patent was 1 piece construction very much like the Scorpion Lock is.It was just a lockback design but interesting as an alternate design by Western and practical as far as deterring crap from building up in your knife and affecting operation. Both designs possess a spring in a cavity in the bottom portion of the handle though seated differently.Most likely the stronger spring design was used by Andrew because he chose to reverse the pivot position to generate the higher tension of the 'yoke' as he calls this exposed/flow through lockback lever.I call it reverse engineered because you grab at the top of it to unlock...but still runs off the Westlock's specific design.You have to stop looking at spot where you'd press down on Lawrence Johnson's lockback design and imagine it covered by the liners/scales and move that pivot pin way down.Add the ability to grab the lockbar itself and pull it up..and you have the Scorpion Lock.
Click to expand...

South African scorpion lock

41XUlPueEpL._SY355_.jpg
 
jlauffer said:
But wouldn't that pretty much be true of any lockback, not just Johnsons?
Click to expand...

It's an interesting theory you present but it wouldn't work with a 2-piece design like a Buck,Schrade,Camillus,etc. lockback design and with a further back pivot point to allow one to lift the lever.Because the post-style spring would get in the way of trying to pull the lockback lever upwards to unlock and not allow that freedom of movement.Lawrence Johnson's spring design seats deeper down in the handle through this encased 1 piece construction which permits this shifting motion.Andrew Demko's design is a tad different with the lockback spring wedged between the lanyard tube and the casing wall but of course the encased approach and the deeper seated spring just like the WestLock...operates in the same manner.
 
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