deposits on knives and delivery of them

Sorry to break up this love-fest :)

My situation has turned for the good. I have a delivery of 4-5 months or less. I figure the man's word is OK and will let it go at that. The delivery seems reasonable given the situation as described before.

Of course, now that I have given my verbal committment, I go see on a dealer's site the very same knife! Except that the one I see available now is right handed. My new baby will be a southpaw.

Has anyone ever bought an available knife to have and hold while their previously ordered custom-built one is on the list to be made? This is very tantalizing to say the least.
 
Originally posted by Boink
Sorry to break up this love-fest :)
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Hmmm suffer from :footinmou :footinmou much?

Definitely not a big fan of being accused of being in a love-fest despite the fact that I reside in San Francisco. :cool:
 
Is that a foot-in-the-mouth icon? I have to go get my glasses ....

What I meant was, let's bring the thread back to the reason of it's creation.

C'mon, you know it's meant in jest.
 
Originally posted by Boink
Is that a foot-in-the-mouth icon? I have to go get my glasses ....

What I meant was, let's bring the thread back to the reason of it's creation.

C'mon, you know it's meant in jest.
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Yes I know it is :)
 
Regarding deposits - the way it’s just been explained to me by the maker is this - it’s many-fold -

Money coming in to help keep the lights on; a committment that helps avoid someone ordering something and then reneging for any number of reasons and the cost of certain materials. For example, if the maker is prone to dress knives and an order comes in for a certain damascus, that metal is not available as a single slim peice for just one knife - the maker is required to buy a chunk of it at some heavy cost, in order to get that one knife out of it. Add other stuff, like specailized natural scale material, and you have a lot of outgoing dollars. This all makes sense.

The businessman in me, though, holds that a popular maker with a following always has an accounts receivable constantly coming in for work that is going out as part of fulfilling his backlog. At least, that's the way it seems as an onlooker.
 
Ok i'm late on this one, but still i have to say!

No Deposit without a Due Date Ever!

I like Les's two exceptions, especially the butt ugly one. hehe The only time i have given a deposit on a custom knife is when i'm asking for something special, as in materials.

James
 
I think your maker is tight on cash, and that makes me concerned. This happens to everyone at some point in time, but it just bothers me. I've offered deposits as a good faith offer to:

W. Osborne
J.W. Smith
A. Frederick
K. Steigerwalt
B. Bradshaw
D. Horn

Everyone said outright "No, that's not necessary." Granted, most of these knives they could sell to another client instantaneously, but as I said earlier, I'm a lefty, and those lefty liner-locks don't move THAT quickly. Please be careful here and as Les said, make it contingent upon a "kill-or-fill" deal IN WRITING! All of those orders have included ALOT of high-end materials (no jewels though) such as black-lip, abalone, spirograph and other damascus, as well as fluted pearl, and some gold fittings.
 
Do not pay deposits unless the maker has to buy some exotic or unusual supplies to make your custom, and even then it should always be a nominal amount. (under $100)
 
From a maker's point of view,who does not accept deposits, I can appreciate that the waiting period can be unbearable. On the other hand from the manufacuring point of view where I run two businesses side by side scheduling is a real headache especially when one of those businesses works on a 1 or 2 week turnaround and the other is an art form where rushing to completion will result in less than perfect work. Sure I can give a delivery date but it is a rough estimate at best.

One problem that we run into with scheduling is purchasing premium materials to suit the knife being built, premium Ironwood as an example is available in 1 1/2 x 5" sizes but what if the knife requires 2 X 6" for the oversize handle...That takes longer to find, sometimes months until the man cutting the wood locates a piece of wood large enough and pretty enough to meet my expectations.

Large inventories of raw materials help with this problem but get very expensive, I just did one at the urging of my accountant, I've got a year's wages tied up there. I think that I will begin to take the longer delivery route and wait for materials instead of trying to keep everything in stock.

Yes the maker should try to give a delivery date and keep you updated as the work progresses but I don't see how that date can be carved in stone unless it is unreasonably long to cover unforseen consequences. If the date is too long people will not order.
 
Each knife maker has to figure out what is best for their business.

Taking deposits for future work to pay for current expenses is a very slippery slope to start down.

What if the person cancels the knife. Not only have you lost that future income you were counting on. Now you have to refund money you have already spent.

Where does this refund come from...thats right another deposit for a future knife.

Mis-mangament of business capital is one of the main reasons a business will go bankrupt.

One other thing that has been brought up in this thread. Makers feel hesitant about telling their customers the "real" delivery time. It is always best to be up front as you can as to a realistic delivery date.

Many times collectors set asisde money to pay for a knife due in June. Most would rather know the knife really won't be done until October. More than likely they will still order the knife. Also, they know that they can look at buying another knife in June.

Obviously things happen that can and will affect a delivery date on occasion. As Georoge wrote, you then contact the collector and keep them updated. This is fine if it happens once in a while. However, if this becomes a pattern for the maker, they need to revist their delivery time frame.

I learned my lesson the hard way. Years ago I took deposits for knives. Of course not being the maker, I was at the mercy of the maker to finish the knife on time. Usually it worked out. However, when it didn't I heard about it (even though I had nothing to do with making the knife). I realized that by having a clients money, they had the perogative to call me up whenever they chose and check on the knife. They also had the perogative of chewing me out when I didn't deliver on time.

Two solutions became very clear:

1) Stop working with unprofessional makers.

2) Stop taking depostis.

So 10 years later, the makers I work with on a regular basis are professionals. Not taking deposits has not hurt my business.
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
What if the person cancels the knife. Not only have you lost that future income you were counting on. Now you have to refund money you have already spent.
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It is my belief that if I make a commitment to purchase a knife, send a deposit and then back out of the deal, that I should forfeit the deposit. Am I wrong to think this way?

One other thing that has been brought up in this thread. Makers feel hesitant about telling their customers the "real" delivery time. It is always best to be up front as you can as to a realistic delivery date.
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I agree that a maker should always give as accurately as possible, a delivery date.

Obviously things happen that can and will affect a delivery date on occasion. As Georoge wrote, you then contact the collector and keep them updated. This is fine if it happens once in a while. However, if this becomes a pattern for the maker, they need to revist their delivery time frame.
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Once again, I agree with the above. There are definitely acceptable reasons for a missed delivery date, but missed delivery dates should not become regular occurrences. I can tell you from first hand experience that being told a knife will be to you in two months and having it arrive six months late is very irritating. Excuse after excuse wears a little thin after awhile.
 
Most of us have a waiting list and with a policy of no deposit. It lets the customer know they are treated just as fairly as the rest of the folks on the waiting list. About the only time I give a customer a rock solid delivery date is for the customer's specified date, such as for Christmas, birthday,or other desiginated date.And the knife has to be ordered at a reasonable length of months ahead to allow this, or they are told they will have to wait another year for the delivery. So far, everyone is happy with the arrangement. The only times (2) times I have been disappointed, and my own fault because of being new at the time, I let the customers have the knives without full payment first. I trusted them but should have simply practiced better business practice. It is the only time a customer has tried anything dishonest with me, and I know I will have an easier time of living with it than the swindlers will. Realized too is the fact that those certain folks are such a small percentage of the population and not identified as customers, just as free wheeling crooks making a score. My customers have been wonderfull folks!
 
Hi Keith,

As far as the maker keeping the deposit. I think that would have to be addressed before the order in confirmed.

If the knife had not been started, the case could be made for the deposit to be returned.
 
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