Depressing day

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
8,651
Well the day started great. Fired up the forge and heat treated the 32" arming sword. It went perfect and would skate a file along the entire edge. I straightened the blade right out of the quench and everything looked golden. I laid the blade on the anvil and when I picked it up it was bowed. Not real bad but bad enough. So I went inside and fired up the oven to 500°. It tempered for 2 hrs and then flipped around and tempered for another 2hrs. I pulled it out and while piping hot tryied to straighten it by flexing it agenst the floor. Would flex and check and nothing it would not take a set. I kept pushing it further by small amounts but nothing. Finely got to 90deg and the damn think snapped. After calming my self down and taking some deep breaths I checked grain size. Not super great but not half bad for being made from the plow steel. I file checked it and still glass hard. A file scratches the black tempered color off but did not bite. So now I'm scratching my head as I know it was at 500° as I used a thermal couple to double check. So now I have a busted sword and a lot of time wasted unless I can learn from this on what not to do next week when I make another one lol.

Photo%20May%2007%2C%209%2020%2029%20PM.jpg
 
That sucks man. But to me it looks like you now have a hunter, and possibly a dagger to work on ;)
 
Ugh. That reminds me of the time I vowed never to straighten with a three point again.
Same thing, took real effort to just handle it. I had to be still for a bit.
So, I feel your pain on this one.
 
I think everyone who makes swords does that a few times. I have two halves of a nice sword in the shop that I still haven't ground down into two knives to salvage them. Every time I start to, I get reminded of how mad I was when it went SNAP.

It is pretty amazing how far you can bend a sword and not get a warp out. It is also pretty amazing how far it will bend before it breaks. It is not pretty when it does.

One trick that has worked on suborn swords is to clamp the last 5" at the tip between padded vise jaws ( copper makes great pads) and have a friend bend the sword using a pipe handle on the tang. Play a torch up and down the outside of the bend. Move it fast, keep it on the spine (or centerline), and let the sword gradually warm up to about 400-600F. If the bend has a specific spot that it originates from, heat that spot more than the rest. The friend can release the tang every now and then to check the progress. Once it gets straight, have him hold the bend while you cool the sword off with water. It should stay straight. (If necessary, move the clamped spot as needed to get it completely straight.)
 
JTknives said:
Thinking about making the tip into a hobbit sword lol
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That may be the best option for the longest shard. I remember the older thread about you forging it from the plow steel, and was looking forward to seeing the finished piece - I'll still check in every now and then to see if there's a complete hobbit sword, though. And I relate to your disappointment, JT, as many makers can also. I've had a few that went "PING" in the quench and one that did on it's way to temper.
 
JTknives said:
Well the day started great. Fired up the forge and heat treated the 32" arming sword. It went perfect and would skate a file along the entire edge. I straightened the blade right out of the quench and everything looked golden. I laid the blade on the anvil and when I picked it up it was bowed. Not real bad but bad enough. So I went inside and fired up the oven to 500°. It tempered for 2 hrs and then flipped around and tempered for another 2hrs. I pulled it out and while piping hot tryied to straighten it by flexing it agenst the floor. Would flex and check and nothing it would not take a set. I kept pushing it further by small amounts but nothing. Finely got to 90deg and the damn think snapped. After calming my self down and taking some deep breaths I checked grain size. Not super great but not half bad for being made from the plow steel. I file checked it and still glass hard. A file scratches the black tempered color off but did not bite. So now I'm scratching my head as I know it was at 500° as I used a thermal couple to double check. So now I have a busted sword and a lot of time wasted unless I can learn from this on what not to do next week when I make another one lol.

Photo%20May%2007%2C%209%2020%2029%20PM.jpg
Click to expand...
Oooo, that makes me just plain sick! It was going to make a grand sword!
 
Recently had some similar steel (spring tine from old hay rake) resist both tempering and annealing, no idea why. Broke multiple norseman bits even after heating to red and slow cooling, had to use carbide to make hinge pin hole (forged scissors). Compared to my known simple carbon steels my spring tine and v-plow sweeps are definately "hot-hard", do not believe that wear resistant farm steel is 1080 anymore. One IH v-plow sweep was hot-hard at forge welding temps. Right now I am leaning strongly towards the belief that tungsten and or molybdenum alloys were used in some vintage plow blades. Some of these types of steel in general (HSS) require very high temps with long soaks for tempering, and air hardening may also be part of the equation. My intent is to have some composition tests done as I greatly enjoy repurposing.
 
The whole concept of using unknown steels to produce a superior hand made product is a bit bass ackwards imo.

IF, you come across some great steel and have it assayed and come up with a consistent, repeatable heat treat schedule, rock on!!!!

BUT, if you are just "experimenting"....expect similar results, often.

In this day and age, where great quality carbon steel is available from multiple sources at reasonable prices, if you are a professional, full time smith......fish, or cut bait!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Ouch!!

That's a shame JT. I was really looking forward to seeing this one finished, as I'm sure you were, even more so.

Any thought's of trying again? :)
 
Sorry to see that. Puts a knot in my gut.
I've always wondered whether placing a hot blade on a cold anvil can influence to bending?
 
Ive seen some old ag steel tested that was like file steel..Specifically it was dump rake teeth if Im not mistaken..It spec'd out with about 1.22% carbon..
 
My spring tines are from a dump rake, very interesting if some have tested at 1.22% carbon. Might explain the difficulty drilling hinge pin.
 
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