Design Critique, Recurve fighter - Input wanted - Recieved!

B

BFrancios

Joined
Jul 9, 2012
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Wanted to post this design before going any further. There were some comments on the last knife I posted that I am hoping to correct on this design. Feel free to be specific, some of the comments on that posting were a little vague (to save my ego ;)) but I am not sure I understood them all.

Here is a link to that post. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-W2-recurve-fighter-with-Hamn-elk-handle

This knife is a learning project, not made for anyone in particular, and using up a forged blank left over from the last project. I wanted to use some twisted wire and maybe do some carving on the handle. It is based of the profile/design of my last knife, with some tweaks, and the handle is influenced by Ron Welling's cover knife in this months Blade Mag. Thus the Scagel features. I plan on using some woods scraps (not sure yet on type) and elk antler on the handle. Other than the top profile, the handle is still very much a work in progress. My handles tend to change right up to the moment they are attached to the tang....

That said, comments on the handle are welcome and appreciated but I am mostly interested in the blade design and overall proportions of the knife.

FYI - I ran across the "golden ratio" towards the end of this design. It is somewhat incorporated into the design when I was unsure of a proportion. I.E. the clip and ricassio dimensions. I had been using 1/3 & 2/3 because that felt right but started using the .618 figure on the latest changes to this knife.

Here is the design. Ignore the "white" where the tang shows through the handle. Can't figure out why SketchUp is doing that when printing. It is not there in the screen.
blade%2520review1.jpg



Thanks for looking and for any input.

Barrry
 
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Beautiul design.

My only comment would be to use a pommel nut rather than trying to pin on the butt cap.
 
Looks good, second the pommel nut, or a nut brazed to the inside of the pommel instead of a pin. Maybe a little less angle on the plunge, guard, and spacers, depends on how it feels in the hand, overall flow is good though.
 
A little less angle along the front of the guard; it would accent the plunge line, which I like. I have been making a few of the raised clips and like them. The pommel nut as mentioned. The handle I think is a little long.
Great design overall just a little tweaking would make it a success.

I hope to see it finished, Fred
 
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or use the endcap (pommel) as a screw by cutting thredts.

Plus I don't see the point of the recurve edge.
It might look nice but it can't be sharpend on a flat stone and adds nothing besides looks.
Personaly I'd straighten it
 
Liking your design. I'm a sucker for recharges. From a user standpoint, is the little hook at the back of the blade necessary? To me, it's something to snag on clothing or a barb to prevent removal from a stab. If this is a show piece, then no worries. If its to be used, maybe remove that little hook.

I like the lines overall.

Not posting this as a maker, but as a consumer.
 
Your design shows a full flat grind breaking the spine line. I would not come up so far; leave at least a 1/4" so you get a nice, rounded grind.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. They are appreciated.

Not sure yet how the pommel and attachment is going to pan out. The pictured one is a carry-over from the last knife design. Have not done a pommel nut yet, but it may be time....

Stalbot - had not thought of the coil area catching on things. Will need to play with that a bit.

I am going through a recurve phase, I like the look. This is a fighter which to me means it has to have a certain level of visual appeal to justify its existence. After all, the user is very unlikely to find themselves in the situation for which is designed and even more unlikely to actually have it available when in that situation. Please, not trying to start a debate with that sentence....

That said, it will be constructed/designed as if it will see hard use, I'll give the recurve, guard angle and grind line comments some thought, a few had been bouncing around in my mind anyway. :)

Thanks again everyone for the input.

Barry
 
I like it alot as a matter of fact I am working on a very similar knife right now. mine wil probably have a stag handle, the guard will have less angle and no grind line delinating the tip and no notch to the edge.Very similar shape and overall size.
 
I know it was part of the design, but it looks overgrinded to me. Regardless, for your fifth knife, that's pretty damn good.
 
I think everything that stands out to me has been mentioned, the Butt (Bladsmth and others) I would center where it exits the Pomel, the Hook (Stalbot), Grind Height (David) I would also bring the clip a little further back where the spine curves. Also if you loose the "Hook" I would bring the point and the belly down close to the same level of the Guard point. Hope that makes sense.
 
THANKS EVERYONE for your comments! Was not expecting this much of a response, and have spent more time on this design as a result. That's a good thing.

Bill - WOW! Between your post and the others, I feel like the knife gods smiled at me.

Ryan - Design 2 & 3 attempt to take your suggestion into account. I was not sure what you meant but I really like the look of your work and wanted to incorporate your suggestion. After dropping the knife point in design 2, I thought maybe you were talking about the "hook" point and came up with design 3. Could not drop the knife point as much as I thought you were suggesting, my attempts looked too extreme, but 2 & 3 make the attempt. Either way, the exercise was helpful, design 2 is now one of my favorites.

Note on grind lines. This is going to be largely driven by my skill level. I still struggle to keep the grind lines even from side to side with a centered cutting edge. Have not attempted to precisely control the grind height. I've just seen how things go and look while grinding. However, like the pommel nut, it may be time to add that to my skills toolbox. I am giving it a try on this knife.

The 3 designs below take everyone's suggestion into account (I hope).

Note - Take everything on the handle as subject to change, I want to keep the blade side of the guard profile but will work on everything behind that, including the finger side of the guard, while I am crafting the blade. THERE WILL be a POMMEL NUT, but the pommel, handle and inside guard area will change. What you see on the handle in these designs is just a rough version at this point.

Design #1 - Attempts to take all suggestions into account without drastic changes to the knifes profile. The raised clip is lengthened slightly to catch the spine curve. A grind line is added. The finger guard (and spacer) angle was reduced to 6 degrees from 18 degrees. The tang is centered in the pommel. NOTE: there will be a pommel nut. Just not pictured here.
Fred - thanks for the guard angle suggestion. You were right, it accents the plunge line better this way.

Design #2 - Drops the knife point and changes the profile to accommodate the change. (Ignore the exit point of the tang on the pommel, that'll change before final shaping. Just saw I missed that change on this version.)

Design #3 - Drops the blade edge inline with the guard per one of my interpretations of Mr. Weeks suggestion. This ones kinda cool looking but not quite what I was going for in this project.

Blade%2520review%252021.jpg




I am leaning towards 1 or 2. I general I like #1 better but am drawn to the slightly slimmer look of #2. Number two looks different, have not decide if that is "different" in a good unique way or "different" in a quirky way. My plan is to make cardboard mockups and go with the one that has the best "tip" feel on those mockups.

Fred and Patrice, I will post the knife when complete. However, It could be a month or so away. I don't get much hobby time and was asked today to make a hunter for a friends brother. The project where I am getting material paid for will take precedence. I have a question regarding that project and customer expectations that I was going ask here but decided it should be a separate post.

Thanks again everyone for looking and making suggestions.


Barry
 
Good stuff and I agree that 1 or 2 are the best (IMHO). They seem to have the right proportions in my mind. To me #3 looks a little to fat thru the body of the blade toward the handle and I personally dont care all that much for the little lip in the original at the bottom of the plunge line. This is just me though, others may think differently.
 
I think the small changes you've made smooth out the original design. I like the first redesign.

Fred
 
Barry,
You are right #3's Blade is too fat, I think it would look better if you did a more aggressive recurve but I think you nailed it with #1 / 2. Just out of curiosity have you tried straightening the guard quillions?

I really look forward to seeing this come to life.
 
I like #1. I aimed for that with my first bowie but ended up grinding too high. I am OK with it because it is for my brother, who will use it as a decorative carver for holicday meals, rather than as a fighter. :) Functionally, no fowl. :)
 
Ryan,

Yes, I have a design version in this file with a straight oblong washer finger guard that I will try on a future knife. I decided to go with this s guard look as an evolution from my last knife.

I had used stock removal to shape that guard and actually had a hard time finding a piece of 416 large enough to do what I wanted. Then after waiting for the material and finally starting to shape the guard, another person in the KITH I was in posted how he shaped his c guard. He heated the metal and bent it. I had a "well duh!" moment. His method was less work, used less expensive and easier to obtain stock, and actually used stock I originally had on hand.

So I want to try that method. Also want to try the curved guard again and make it thinner when viewed from the front down the length of the blade. I was pleased with the last guard but the longer I looked at it, it looked bulky when viewed from that front angle. I want to try again and get a better shape with this knife.

Barry
 
#1

The tang is centered now, and what you did is OK, but the normal way is to curve the tang.
Draw the curved tang outline on the outside of handle block. Using the lines on the outside to guide you, drill the handle part way from the butt end first, switching to the guard end, etc., until the holes intersect. This gives you a "curved" hole the curved tang should slip through.

As you have it, there is a possibility that you could accidentally grind into the tang hole, especially if grinding a finger choil or sculpting the handle shape.
 
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