Design etiquette

O

O.L.C.

Joined
May 14, 2018
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I am a new knife making hobbyist. So far the knives I have made and want to make are based off of shapes and styles I have seen done by others. Nothing is original, beyond small differences.

My question is, is this bad etiquette? Should I come up with all original? Where is the line? (I should add that I have not sold anything, everything so far everything I have and will make are just gifts)

I do understand that some shapes havebeen around for generations, like drop and clip points. I am more thinking of some unique hawk bills or Bowie, ect.

What are people's views on this?
 
All artists have their influences and you have a right to yours. In all fields, we stand on the shoulders of those who came before us and that is an honorable tradition. You'll come up with your own design language as you study. Counterfeiting/plagiarism for profit is another matter.
 
Belated "Welcome!"

I take it you are talking about fixed blades.

Interesting question...I am curious to see where it goes. "Drop point" is a great example. It is Loveless's design and not that old. But everybody makes one. Or look at Stewart/BlackJack. They are just doing "homage/tributes" to knives that are still being produced by Randall. Think they even keep the same name.

That said, you are probably getting ahead of yourself. Not something to worry about now.
 
b00n said:
Inspired by/Hommage is fine, especially if it is just small run customs.
Straight up copies for personal use are okay, and possibly gifts.
Copies for small runs or large production is dispicable.
Click to expand...

So what is your take on this? (Not to single out BRK or DLT....they are just convienient examples)

https://www.knivesshipfree.com/bark-river-knives-classic-drop-point-hunter/

It is the same as the Loveless Dropped Hunter that he invented and is still sold...other than convex vs hollow grind.

Despicable?
 
Truth be told, other than materials selection, you'd be HARD pressed to come up with a knife idea that does not already exist " somewhere by someone " other than perhaps going way out in left field into the " Fantasy " knife field.... most useful designs and ideas have been in production somewhere by someone....for YEARS

build what you like, like what you build, never attempt a " direct copy " of someone elses work with an intent to pass it off as anything other than your take on their design....

I honestly can't imagine people getting that darned bent out of shape over stuff like this....

The " Wave fiasco " comes to mind.... and I read about a maker who blew a gasket cause someone else put a lanyard hole in the guard when that was....their idea even though the knives in question were VERY different... the whole dispute was the fact that a lanyard hole was in the guard......mmmmk Buddy

meh, whatever man, bet your bottom dollar I'll never spend a dime on any of those makers products.... I understand the copyright of a new product that is so far removed from what came before it that NOTHING like it existed before.... but the placement of a hole.... a hole..... nah man, I'm good without mess like that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, don't clone a Lyle....then try and pass it off as a Lyle.... but personally, I'm ok with you cloning a Lyle...from slightly different materials, and saying its " MY conceptual take on a Lyle knife "

I fully expect a lot of folks to disagree with me....

I'm ok with that.
 
I agree that most useful designs have already been made by someone over the years
That is why many new makers go for outlandish designs that are far from functional
 
I just spent 5 minutes drawing this knife

9dpQ0pt.jpg


While it's all mine I'll bet it looks close or just like another knife so I think within reason you'll probably be OK
 
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I think it depends on what the inspiration knife was and just how close you get to it.

You can copy this I think without anyone's panties bunching:

8693-DEFAULT-l.jpg

Whereas panties may indeed begin to bunch if you made an exact, or even near exact copy of this:

41L7zygWGzL._SY355_.jpg


The first is just a knife shaped knife. The second is very distinctly a Spyderco and a Schempp design. While I'm sure someone was the first do make a knife like the first pic above, the list of definable features is very short. It'd be hard to make a knife of that size that functioned well that didn't look at least a bit like that. The design of the second knife is easily avoided though.

There's something to be said about subtleties too. Lots of folks make a tanto tipped fixed blade with a finger choil. If however you make a tanto tipped fixed blade with a chisel grind and a Fred Perrin-esque super deep finger choil you're clearly close to Charlie Mike's design language... who, as the example suggests, borrowed a bit from another maker himself.
 
I think you pretty much have to go out of your way to make a knife that would be considered a copy of someone else's patented or copyrighted design.
A lot of knife designs are just generic and then the makers own style is naturally imprinted on it. That style will become apparent and easily recognizable in mostly all of their designs. Even though it's very similar to the generic designs, you can just tell who made it.
 
For what-ever it is worth, here are some, but far from all, of the general legalities involved. I am not a lawyer, and not taking sides either way. These are all part of what are known as Intellectual Property or IP rights

1. Copyrights are for published works, meaning printed, (stories, books, songs) or recorded media such as videos, photos, spoken word, and music. Not applicable to manufacturing knives.
2. Patents are for manufactured items, formulas, methods of doing or making something. Normally, this is where knives would land. However, you cannot patent such things as a sound, a color or a shape which is generally where knife patents fall flat on their face. Now if you were able to design a entirely new and improved cutting edge that can only be made using a process you created. Almost certainly patent-able. But if someone figures out how to make that edge with a different process, you are probably out of luck stopping them. If you come up with a new formula for steel. Patent it! Or Don't.
The problem with patents is you have to show what is in it when you file the patent. Is it a secret you don't want getting out? Don't patent it. Think Coke's flavor formula or Colonel Sanders recipe.
3. Trademarks are for business names, logos, etc. You might be able to get some protection here if you have a unique enough and original blade. In theory you could make that blade / shape your trademark.

Other sticking points - You cannot use any one else's trademark without permission. Using their name can get you into trouble too. If you try to sell a "Bob Loveless Knife" you made, you could get sued. If you call it a "Bob Loveless design", or better yet, "inspired by Bob Loveless", you are probably ok. If you are selling a "Johnny Depp" knife, you better get permission. The main sticking point is what impression is being made in the mind of the consumer. Does it lead the buyer to believe Bob Loveless made it or did Johnny Depp endorse or design it? If so, you could land in court.

Which brings the biggest and most important point to all of this. If you have a patent, copyright, or trademark, don't think for a minute that you can send the cops after some guy to arrest him for violating your IP rights. You have to find them, and go after them in civil, not criminal court. Which means high legal bills for you to enforce your rights. And MAYBE you collect damages and legal fees.

Under certain conditions, you can get the cops to go after people copying your products. But only when it becomes a criminal act like fraud. Someone is deliberately copying product, name, packaging, design, everything, solely for the purpose of defrauding the buyer.
 
u3aWUI4.jpg
hb9AyAr.jpg

So here it is. This is what got me thinking about it. I found the first picture on pinterest, and want to make a garden knife for my wife and friends (gifts only). Clearly some differences in the handle but the blade is really close.

If anyone knows this knife maker I am more than willing to talk to them.

All this is great info though. All things to consider the deeper I dive in
 
O.L.C. said:
u3aWUI4.jpg
hb9AyAr.jpg

So here it is. This is what got me thinking about it. I found the first picture on pinterest, and want to make a garden knife for my wife and friends (gifts only). Clearly some differences in the handle but the blade is really close.

If anyone knows this knife maker I am more than willing to talk to them.

All this is great info though. All things to consider the deeper I dive in
Click to expand...
I would call that a modified harpoon style.
 
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