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Please ,please, please tell me you didn,t make pants cause you were already wearing pants? :barf:
I mean I know its about your survival . We would like to survive too.
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Design your own Wilderness Survival School
- Thread starter SkunkWerX
- Start date
Please ,please, please tell me you didn,t make pants cause you were already wearing pants? :barf:
I mean I know its about your survival . We would like to survive too.
Skunk, I don't intend to get dropped anywhere with only a SAK. If you young guys want to play HALO parachute games that's fine with me...good luck
Coldwood, I'm with you, I'm 46 yrs old, gettin slower each day.
I was trying to make the point that maybe someone somewhere, wants to go to that extreme, but Bow and Drill firemaking would be at that very, very far end of the spectrum to me, same as being dropped nekkid with pen knife.
BUT, I do think knowing an alternate fire method, like how to use a magnesium/flint block, or spark-lite, magnifying glass, tinder, to make fire is important (Not necessairly saying we have rub two sticks together, I've done it, back in boyscouts, 30 yrs ago, it sucks!) I was just saying that it's nice to know more than the "flik the Bic" method. Me, I have a lighter within 2 feet of me whenever I'm out camping or away from civilization, and I don't even smoke.
I believe in having Fire x3 in a wilderness situation. But none of the 3 include bow and drill, for sure. Bic, matches, and magnesium/flint are my three.
I think if they were running an well-advanced seminar, they could have "learning stations", Coote could be at one teaching friction fire making using natural materials, i would watch and cheer when he got a flame going.
Kevin at another station teaching us how to extract arrows from killer-bee nests!
(Or at least show the video to everyone).Sorry Kev, it just popped into my pea-brain alluvva sudden.
I'm as lazy as the next guy, but I still like to think when the going gets tough, I can still suck it up and take care of business, just at a slower pace than I could when I was 30 yrs old. Doesn't mean I am ever going to go Neanderthal-primitive.
Except maybe for the bone thru my nose.
My hat goes off to Coote and anyone who can make fire with a bow and drill.
I've read that they etimate there are only about 500 people in the US that can do so on any regular basis. I am NOT one of them.
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Guys, I think anybody who can make fire with a bow n drill probably eats kryptonite. I say again, I would love to learn it.
I wonder again, like Kevin, why did Codger make a shirt and hat with no pants?!?! No offense Codger, just kidding, I know you've been around the woods more than once, I would love to follow you and learn!
This is a great thread for me, and this forum in general, really focuses my attitude about being a survivor and not a victim or refugee.
I wonder again, like Kevin, why did Codger make a shirt and hat with no pants?!?! No offense Codger, just kidding, I know you've been around the woods more than once, I would love to follow you and learn!
This is a great thread for me, and this forum in general, really focuses my attitude about being a survivor and not a victim or refugee.
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For bow and drill, This is a great little page.
http://www.natureskills.com/bow_drill_fire_making.html
Once you have the knowledge upstairs in your noggin, its there for good. Barring a blow to the head causing amnesia, nothing can take this skill away from you.
Your plane can go down and all your bics and firemaking stuff was in your check in baggage. You have nothing but the clothes on your back on a deserted island. Highly unlikely, but not impossible.5 minutes to read that page can save you hours of trying to get a spark.
Even just the section about the notches in the fireboard, the most important part, since many of us know the basics of it from television and other sources.
Plus, its kind of fun, it impresses people, and its how our ancestors did it.
http://www.natureskills.com/bow_drill_fire_making.html
Once you have the knowledge upstairs in your noggin, its there for good. Barring a blow to the head causing amnesia, nothing can take this skill away from you.
Your plane can go down and all your bics and firemaking stuff was in your check in baggage. You have nothing but the clothes on your back on a deserted island. Highly unlikely, but not impossible.5 minutes to read that page can save you hours of trying to get a spark.
Even just the section about the notches in the fireboard, the most important part, since many of us know the basics of it from television and other sources.
Plus, its kind of fun, it impresses people, and its how our ancestors did it.
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Liam, thanks for the info, I know this is stuff that can save my life.
Codger, despite my BSing around...I had a friend once, a retired Marine, who spent an afternoon with me showing how to make cordage out of stripped out milk-weed...by happy hour I had about a four-foot length of really good rope.
He said he wanted to be able to go into the woods and come out with a set of clothes on his back...I jokingly reminded him that he was an ex-Marine...he not-so-jokingly reminded me that what I said wasn't a fair comment (and there's no such thing as a retired or X Marine). I got his point. He didn't beat me up, we're still friends. But I got his point, that we're capable of doing many more things than we think.
Codger, despite my BSing around...I had a friend once, a retired Marine, who spent an afternoon with me showing how to make cordage out of stripped out milk-weed...by happy hour I had about a four-foot length of really good rope.
He said he wanted to be able to go into the woods and come out with a set of clothes on his back...I jokingly reminded him that he was an ex-Marine...he not-so-jokingly reminded me that what I said wasn't a fair comment (and there's no such thing as a retired or X Marine). I got his point. He didn't beat me up, we're still friends. But I got his point, that we're capable of doing many more things than we think.
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Essentially, what Rescue Mike said, except I'd stretch the learning out over a longer time period. Sure, I'd have overnight trips, but I'd have the learning done in a longer fashion.
#1 - Start with the most basic aspect of survival - the survival mindset. The greatest tool we have is our mind. Learning how to use that tool, and how to keep it in satisfactory working condition, are paramount. This learning would be done via plain', ol lecturing and in-field experience.
#2 - There's the basic "law of 3's" - 3 minutes without air, 3 hours in extreme temps, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food - that is a decent generalization of the human body's various physical needs thresholds. I would teach the hands-on skills based on that heirarchy.
a.) breathing is self-explanatory. I would cover different triggers of airway obstruction, as well as clearing methods, in the Wilderness Medicine section of the class
b.) this is where the bulk of class time and field time would be spent. This section includes shelter building, firecraft, clothing selection and how wilderness variables effect clothing material choices. The major factors that play into shelter construction would be discussed, such as type of shelter needed, safe site selection, different construction methods, and so forth. Students would build immediate action shelters (debris huts), and tarp huts.
The firecraft section would cover both firesteel and bow-and-drill methods. The various elements of firecraft would be taught, like the components needed for a fire, site selection, and material use. The students would have to light a fire, using no matches or lighters, within 10 minutes bu the end of the class.
The students would be exposed to the elements (always under instructor supervision) and would get a chance to test their clothing. They would be taught natural insulation techniques, such as stuffing dry pine needles between clothing layers for extra insulation.
#3 - Various methods of water collection would be discussed and attemted by students. Water purification, filtration, assessing, etc would be covered. Locating water would be discussed and practiced.
#4 - Traps and Snares. The students would see many different types of traps and snares demonstrated and would be taught to make at least 3 different type and demonstrate their use. Game site selection, as well as fishing techniques, would be covered. Local edible foliage would be discussed, procured, and enjoyed
The basic tools needed for survival would be issued, then introduced as the class progressed from skill to skill. A small camp shovel would likely be the first-used tool. When a tool is used, the important elements of that tool, as well as alternatives for the tool, both natural and man-made, would be discussed with the students. For instance, when a shovel is brought out to make a firebed in a shelter, the instructor would give the students pros and cons of different camp shovels (size, brand, folding vs straight, etc). As the students used their shovels, they would also have to incorporate a shovel alternative, such as digging sticks, knife, flat rock, emptied-out side-view mirror from a car, etc. The students would learn to handle and properly use their tools throughout the course of the class. They would be encouraged to bring any tools of their own to try.
#5 - Wilderness First Aid would cover hypothermia, heat exposure, surface wound cleansing and management, eye safety, basic wilderness hygiene methods, and other things that I'm too tired to think of Improvisational medicine would be discussed and practiced, such as tree-limb stretcher making. Medicinal plants would be covered, such as boiling willow bark for a slight aspirin effect.
#6 - Keeping it all together - this would cover cordage, both man-made and improvised, knot tying, and backpack/gear carrying selection and methods.
#7 - Signaling. This section would cover signal mirrors, signal whistles, and landscape signals like stomping "SOS" in large letters on an empty, snowy mountainside for passing planes or trekkers.
#8- Traveling. The pros and cons of traveling, as well as navigational methods, would be covered. I would actually make orienteering a separate class.
Throughout the course of the instruction, the students would be continually encouraged to invent and test alternative methods, such as improvising tools, testing different types of natural insulations, creating new signaling methods, etc. The survival mindset would be continually reinforced.
And I'm sure I left stuff out... most importantly, though, the students would PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE the various skills, both alone and in groups, until they demonstrated proficiency.
#1 - Start with the most basic aspect of survival - the survival mindset. The greatest tool we have is our mind. Learning how to use that tool, and how to keep it in satisfactory working condition, are paramount. This learning would be done via plain', ol lecturing and in-field experience.
#2 - There's the basic "law of 3's" - 3 minutes without air, 3 hours in extreme temps, 3 days without water, and 3 weeks without food - that is a decent generalization of the human body's various physical needs thresholds. I would teach the hands-on skills based on that heirarchy.
a.) breathing is self-explanatory. I would cover different triggers of airway obstruction, as well as clearing methods, in the Wilderness Medicine section of the class
b.) this is where the bulk of class time and field time would be spent. This section includes shelter building, firecraft, clothing selection and how wilderness variables effect clothing material choices. The major factors that play into shelter construction would be discussed, such as type of shelter needed, safe site selection, different construction methods, and so forth. Students would build immediate action shelters (debris huts), and tarp huts.
The firecraft section would cover both firesteel and bow-and-drill methods. The various elements of firecraft would be taught, like the components needed for a fire, site selection, and material use. The students would have to light a fire, using no matches or lighters, within 10 minutes bu the end of the class.
The students would be exposed to the elements (always under instructor supervision) and would get a chance to test their clothing. They would be taught natural insulation techniques, such as stuffing dry pine needles between clothing layers for extra insulation.
#3 - Various methods of water collection would be discussed and attemted by students. Water purification, filtration, assessing, etc would be covered. Locating water would be discussed and practiced.
#4 - Traps and Snares. The students would see many different types of traps and snares demonstrated and would be taught to make at least 3 different type and demonstrate their use. Game site selection, as well as fishing techniques, would be covered. Local edible foliage would be discussed, procured, and enjoyed
The basic tools needed for survival would be issued, then introduced as the class progressed from skill to skill. A small camp shovel would likely be the first-used tool. When a tool is used, the important elements of that tool, as well as alternatives for the tool, both natural and man-made, would be discussed with the students. For instance, when a shovel is brought out to make a firebed in a shelter, the instructor would give the students pros and cons of different camp shovels (size, brand, folding vs straight, etc). As the students used their shovels, they would also have to incorporate a shovel alternative, such as digging sticks, knife, flat rock, emptied-out side-view mirror from a car, etc. The students would learn to handle and properly use their tools throughout the course of the class. They would be encouraged to bring any tools of their own to try.
#5 - Wilderness First Aid would cover hypothermia, heat exposure, surface wound cleansing and management, eye safety, basic wilderness hygiene methods, and other things that I'm too tired to think of
Improvisational medicine would be discussed and practiced, such as tree-limb stretcher making. Medicinal plants would be covered, such as boiling willow bark for a slight aspirin effect.#6 - Keeping it all together - this would cover cordage, both man-made and improvised, knot tying, and backpack/gear carrying selection and methods.
#7 - Signaling. This section would cover signal mirrors, signal whistles, and landscape signals like stomping "SOS" in large letters on an empty, snowy mountainside for passing planes or trekkers.
#8- Traveling. The pros and cons of traveling, as well as navigational methods, would be covered. I would actually make orienteering a separate class.
Throughout the course of the instruction, the students would be continually encouraged to invent and test alternative methods, such as improvising tools, testing different types of natural insulations, creating new signaling methods, etc. The survival mindset would be continually reinforced.
And I'm sure I left stuff out... most importantly, though, the students would PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE the various skills, both alone and in groups, until they demonstrated proficiency.
Friction fire lighting can seem surprisingly easy at times, but I have found it to be virtually impossible under some conditions. In some tricky situations you might need the light or heat of a fire immediately and friction firelighting is not the best option. Bic lighters can be operated with one hand...and they can give you an instant flame. They are fantastic.
Coldwood....if you ever come to one of my courses you are welcome to wear clothing, and I will give you a Bic lighter.
In fact, I would insist that males at least wear trousers while trying to light a fire with a bow drill. While working the bow in a crouching position you might suffer damage if anything dangling becomes entangled in the moving parts.
Coldwood....if you ever come to one of my courses you are welcome to wear clothing, and I will give you a Bic lighter.
In fact, I would insist that males at least wear trousers while trying to light a fire with a bow drill. While working the bow in a crouching position you might suffer damage if anything dangling becomes entangled in the moving parts.
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One aspect of survival (and life) that hasn't been touched on directly is sound judgment. Granted, this is often an innate personality quality, but it is my belief that it is something that can be cultivated. A major component in developing sound judgment is the ability to recognize patterns. This includes productive (and non-productive) behavior patterns in self and others, weather patterns, game behavior, e & e issues, topography, orienteering, etc. I can't over-emphasize the importance of developing this skill. It's ambiguous and highly intangible to be sure, but it provides a gateway to great discovery, knowledge, and wisdom.
Or perhaps, since I've been up all night, I've just gone soft in the head once again. (That's one of my patterns.)
Or perhaps, since I've been up all night, I've just gone soft in the head once again. (That's one of my patterns.)
Martoon, you have a very good point.
At the core of the survival experience is problem solving.
Problem solving involves sorting information and making a decision based on that information. Observing and and gathering information can help make the best decision. The best decisions are going to yield the better outcomes.
Perhaps spending 15 to 20 minutes and having novice students write down what they see around them, and noting any useful material, the weather, what time of day it is, would serve a good exercise to get them into the problem solving mindset.
Chapter One would most likely be mental outlook, keeping a positive attitude, and that type of thing, Introducing problem solving during this time would be a great lead-in to the next chapters, Water, Shelter, Fire, Food, Tools, etc.
At the core of the survival experience is problem solving.
Problem solving involves sorting information and making a decision based on that information. Observing and and gathering information can help make the best decision. The best decisions are going to yield the better outcomes.
Perhaps spending 15 to 20 minutes and having novice students write down what they see around them, and noting any useful material, the weather, what time of day it is, would serve a good exercise to get them into the problem solving mindset.
Chapter One would most likely be mental outlook, keeping a positive attitude, and that type of thing, Introducing problem solving during this time would be a great lead-in to the next chapters, Water, Shelter, Fire, Food, Tools, etc.
I agree with Codger. I like what Dr. Gino Ferri says in his great survival book. Survival and comfort are not the same thing. Nessmuk and the guys are about comfort-campcraft. (Smoothing it, not roughing it, etc.) Survival is different. The winter course I took with Mors Kochanski was excellent. Sleeping out in -20F with no sleeping bag was not comfortable. Learning to build the lean-to, bough bed and lasting fire that can keep you alive was about survival.
I had a huge, detailed post planned out but never got around to it. So here's a shorter version - essentially, there are three tiers
1. Introduction to Survival
Geared towards the non-outdoorsy or average person, the introduction covers the basics and is designed to be simple enough so as not to feel overwhelming, which might otherwise discourage them from learning these basic skills.
The lectures provide history and theoretical background on surviving in the wilderness, as well as urban survival. Covers the rule of threes, S.T.O.P., preventative steps and preparedness, EDC, clothing and the concept of layers, common sense, myths, firecraft, signalling, case studies, and first aid basics including recognizing hypothermia.
Labs are relatively short (a few hours) and include shelter building, fire making (with and without firestarters), water gathering, signalling, and first aid. Final lab will be a supervised (but no interference unless an emergency) overnight stay with minimum gear to put what they've learned to use.
Another option for instructors is to have a monitored overnight stay on the first day with minimal interference, which can be used to assess students abilities and illustrate how unprepared some people are - this may 'enhance' students interest in learning, although it may also scare some people off. Obviously if this option is taken, some people will be unprepared to the point where an overnight stay is unsafe and may have to come out early.
2. Advanced Survival
For the outdoor type, advanced survival continues where the introduction to survival left off. Goes into more advanced survival techniques, shelter building, plant recognition and uses, food gathering, wilderness first aid, land navigation, and so forth.
The course will take place primarily in the field. The final lab is a 3 to 7 day survival exercise.
3. Primative Skills
For those interested, this course is designed to cover long term survival. Covers toolmaking (including knapping), advanced food preparation (smoking meat, preserving food, etc), weaponmaking (bows, atlatls, etc), cordage making, hunting, advanced plant recognition, leather tanning, etc.
These are designed as local classes that you take whenever you want (kind of like the local red cross CPR and first aid training).
Ideally however, a basic survival class in high school would be required, and colleges would offer several survival classes, but that would require a big shift in our societies mindset and probably won't happen.
1. Introduction to Survival
Geared towards the non-outdoorsy or average person, the introduction covers the basics and is designed to be simple enough so as not to feel overwhelming, which might otherwise discourage them from learning these basic skills.
The lectures provide history and theoretical background on surviving in the wilderness, as well as urban survival. Covers the rule of threes, S.T.O.P., preventative steps and preparedness, EDC, clothing and the concept of layers, common sense, myths, firecraft, signalling, case studies, and first aid basics including recognizing hypothermia.
Labs are relatively short (a few hours) and include shelter building, fire making (with and without firestarters), water gathering, signalling, and first aid. Final lab will be a supervised (but no interference unless an emergency) overnight stay with minimum gear to put what they've learned to use.
Another option for instructors is to have a monitored overnight stay on the first day with minimal interference, which can be used to assess students abilities and illustrate how unprepared some people are - this may 'enhance' students interest in learning, although it may also scare some people off. Obviously if this option is taken, some people will be unprepared to the point where an overnight stay is unsafe and may have to come out early.
2. Advanced Survival
For the outdoor type, advanced survival continues where the introduction to survival left off. Goes into more advanced survival techniques, shelter building, plant recognition and uses, food gathering, wilderness first aid, land navigation, and so forth.
The course will take place primarily in the field. The final lab is a 3 to 7 day survival exercise.
3. Primative Skills
For those interested, this course is designed to cover long term survival. Covers toolmaking (including knapping), advanced food preparation (smoking meat, preserving food, etc), weaponmaking (bows, atlatls, etc), cordage making, hunting, advanced plant recognition, leather tanning, etc.
These are designed as local classes that you take whenever you want (kind of like the local red cross CPR and first aid training).
Ideally however, a basic survival class in high school would be required, and colleges would offer several survival classes, but that would require a big shift in our societies mindset and probably won't happen.
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Re-reading this thread, it amuses me how easy it was for me to stick my foot in my mouth two months ago
Today, I'm avidly interested in getting out and learning how to make fire with a bow and drill. This is largely due to the recent threads and successes by Rescue Mike and Skunkwerx with the bow and drill.
Back to Skunk's original premise, Design Your Own Wilderness Survival School. This is something I've been toying with in my mind lately, since I am retired from what the white man calls "work", looking for something new to do, and I have 17 acres of private field and woods in my backyard to play with. Bordering my land is lots of old pasture gone back to brush that belongs to a neighbor and I have his permission to hunt it. Bordering his property is a good sized chunk of public state forest. This is all classic upland field and forest, criss-crossed with old stone fences, abandoned apple orchards, and riddled with small streams. Very friendly land and there's about 100 square miles of it starting from my back yard.
My concept would be to start with a few people and teach them simple basics. Of course I'm no expert, but I go on the old adage that the quickest way to become an expert on a subject is to start teaching that subject. I did that once before with 18th century colonial medicine, but that's another story.
So my school would focus on camping, bushcraft, primitive skills, with an emphasis on how these skills could be used in a survival situation. A school for beginners of all ages. Classes would be on weekends, rain or shine, over the course of a summer. I would charge a nominal fee for the season to cover materials and my time and use of my property (I don't plan to make much money at this) because people value something more if they have to pay for it and they'll be more likely to finish the course.
So I might teach fire making; plant and tree identification and which are usefull for cordage, tinder, even eating; primitive shelter building (I have acres of maple saplings that need to be thinned out and I can recycle the shelters for firewood ); where to find water, how to collect it and get it back to camp and purify it; how to use knives, hatchets and machetes (I would probably give each student a beginners Mora that would be their basic woodcraft tool, one of the percs of the course).
First aid would be taught, but not by me. I would arrange through the local Red Cross to find out who does teach first aid, let them handle it as a separate but mandatory part of the course.
I can teach compass and topo map reading, that would be part of it.
I have a friend who could teach the basics of trapping and snaring, if the group is interested.
There's a river a mile away where they could learn primitive fishing techniques.
Overnight camping, firemaking and cooking would be possible on my property.
The Adirondack Mountains, where I live, is hugely popular for mountain climbing, easy 3000-4000 ft peaks. I've climbed many of them back in the day, but I'm an old fart and I'd arrange with a younger person from the Adirondack Mountain Club to lead a beginners expedition.
The first season, I'd let the group determine what they want to learn, beyond the basics I mentioned above. All of this would be low impact beginners level, preliminary to them taking a tougher wilderness survival course or orienteering course.
Certificates of completion would be given out, everybody likes to have something new to hang on the wall.
This all sounds very rosy to me, but the biggest problem I see is liability insurance. That is the very first thing I have to investigate and find a solution for.
Does this sound reasonable? How would you market it, find a few good people seriously interested?
Today, I'm avidly interested in getting out and learning how to make fire with a bow and drill. This is largely due to the recent threads and successes by Rescue Mike and Skunkwerx with the bow and drill.
Back to Skunk's original premise, Design Your Own Wilderness Survival School. This is something I've been toying with in my mind lately, since I am retired from what the white man calls "work", looking for something new to do, and I have 17 acres of private field and woods in my backyard to play with. Bordering my land is lots of old pasture gone back to brush that belongs to a neighbor and I have his permission to hunt it. Bordering his property is a good sized chunk of public state forest. This is all classic upland field and forest, criss-crossed with old stone fences, abandoned apple orchards, and riddled with small streams. Very friendly land and there's about 100 square miles of it starting from my back yard.
My concept would be to start with a few people and teach them simple basics. Of course I'm no expert, but I go on the old adage that the quickest way to become an expert on a subject is to start teaching that subject. I did that once before with 18th century colonial medicine, but that's another story.
So my school would focus on camping, bushcraft, primitive skills, with an emphasis on how these skills could be used in a survival situation. A school for beginners of all ages. Classes would be on weekends, rain or shine, over the course of a summer. I would charge a nominal fee for the season to cover materials and my time and use of my property (I don't plan to make much money at this) because people value something more if they have to pay for it and they'll be more likely to finish the course.
So I might teach fire making; plant and tree identification and which are usefull for cordage, tinder, even eating; primitive shelter building (I have acres of maple saplings that need to be thinned out and I can recycle the shelters for firewood
); where to find water, how to collect it and get it back to camp and purify it; how to use knives, hatchets and machetes (I would probably give each student a beginners Mora that would be their basic woodcraft tool, one of the percs of the course).First aid would be taught, but not by me. I would arrange through the local Red Cross to find out who does teach first aid, let them handle it as a separate but mandatory part of the course.
I can teach compass and topo map reading, that would be part of it.
I have a friend who could teach the basics of trapping and snaring, if the group is interested.
There's a river a mile away where they could learn primitive fishing techniques.
Overnight camping, firemaking and cooking would be possible on my property.
The Adirondack Mountains, where I live, is hugely popular for mountain climbing, easy 3000-4000 ft peaks. I've climbed many of them back in the day, but I'm an old fart and I'd arrange with a younger person from the Adirondack Mountain Club to lead a beginners expedition.
The first season, I'd let the group determine what they want to learn, beyond the basics I mentioned above. All of this would be low impact beginners level, preliminary to them taking a tougher wilderness survival course or orienteering course.
Certificates of completion would be given out, everybody likes to have something new to hang on the wall.
This all sounds very rosy to me, but the biggest problem I see is liability insurance. That is the very first thing I have to investigate and find a solution for.
Does this sound reasonable? How would you market it, find a few good people seriously interested?
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- Sep 22, 2003
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- 13,182
Funny you mention that one Cliff. I got that and some others for my wife for Christmas.
I mean I guess that the whole idea was just to go out and play, but the title is somewhat misleading.
I was expecting them going out and then making shelters and then kind of subsisting but instead they are sleeping under plastic, finding cooking oil and other modern stuff at abandoned camps, forging stuff, and in general really doing a lot of really useless stuff to survival(making a sauna out of plastic!!) It didn't show them killing any game or dressing it out, edible plants were covered only briefly.
We both thought it was kind of a waste of money. They seemed to rely on a lot of modern stuff they didn't need and not bring a lot of modern stuff that would have weighed less and had more utility.
We bought another one too I can't think of the name, but while there was a bit of good stuff in both videos we got in general it relied on you having too much stuff IMO to really rate as survival.
I thought the Ray Mears videos I have seen although often not applicable to where I live or hike had more practical stuff in them.
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- Dec 22, 2006
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- 2,194
Great question.
1) Prevention. Not getting yourself in a tight spot in the first place.
2) Preparation. Having the right tools on hand.
3) Skills: how to use the tools. How to improvise if you don't. Signalling, first aid; physiology-- temperature control, hydration and nutrition; navigation; shelter making; knots and lashing; fire making; finding, carrying and purifiying water; edible plants; small game hunting -- snares, traps, spearing, clubs; dealing with predators; safe terrain-crossing techniques (how not to be Bear Grylls).
4) Attitude, attitude, attitude-- aided by all the above (confidence).
1) Prevention. Not getting yourself in a tight spot in the first place.
2) Preparation. Having the right tools on hand.
3) Skills: how to use the tools. How to improvise if you don't. Signalling, first aid; physiology-- temperature control, hydration and nutrition; navigation; shelter making; knots and lashing; fire making; finding, carrying and purifiying water; edible plants; small game hunting -- snares, traps, spearing, clubs; dealing with predators; safe terrain-crossing techniques (how not to be Bear Grylls).
4) Attitude, attitude, attitude-- aided by all the above (confidence).
Who dredged up this old rag of a thread?
DaleW, ahhh, very nice, PREVENTION!
I like it, I like it....after reading the article by Mr. Kim Sr. posted in another thread, this does make very good sense. Gameplan #1 is not get into that situation if you can help it.
Coldwood, Liability insurance certainly would be an issue, Waivers can be signed, but a lawyer will tell you they are barely worth the paper they are written on. Probably depends on your state and their laws.
But if you start a class, I'll be there! The Adirondacks are beautiful.
DaleW, ahhh, very nice, PREVENTION!
I like it, I like it....after reading the article by Mr. Kim Sr. posted in another thread, this does make very good sense. Gameplan #1 is not get into that situation if you can help it.
Coldwood, Liability insurance certainly would be an issue, Waivers can be signed, but a lawyer will tell you they are barely worth the paper they are written on. Probably depends on your state and their laws.
But if you start a class, I'll be there! The Adirondacks are beautiful.
Coldwood, also, the point about friction-by-fire......
Certainly it should be among the more Advanced end of things. There are so many basic skills to educate and reinforce, it becomes a matter of pragmatism and logistics.
I did like the above mentioned idea of a "primitive" skills class thrown into the mix.
But, how about this.... offer the beginner, Intermediate and Advanced coursework, but also, offer clinics, or "workshops" covering a specific skill, such as Friction Fire Making. Easily an entire outing could be devoted to just that.
Firemaking is very very important, no question about it, so I am a bit torn.
In order to pass the Full "Advanced" CourseWork, and receive your diploma, one would not only need to complete Beginner and Intermediate levels, but also a set amount of workshops and clinics, with some being mandatory (Red Cross First Aid, for instance) and others being "electives" (Navigating White Water?).
I think there are 100% good ideas running through this thread.
Everyone seems to be on the same wavelength.
Another way to teach it would be functionally by skills.
Like the Chapters of a book.
Certainly it should be among the more Advanced end of things. There are so many basic skills to educate and reinforce, it becomes a matter of pragmatism and logistics.
I did like the above mentioned idea of a "primitive" skills class thrown into the mix.
But, how about this.... offer the beginner, Intermediate and Advanced coursework, but also, offer clinics, or "workshops" covering a specific skill, such as Friction Fire Making. Easily an entire outing could be devoted to just that.
Firemaking is very very important, no question about it, so I am a bit torn.
In order to pass the Full "Advanced" CourseWork, and receive your diploma, one would not only need to complete Beginner and Intermediate levels, but also a set amount of workshops and clinics, with some being mandatory (Red Cross First Aid, for instance) and others being "electives" (Navigating White Water?).
I think there are 100% good ideas running through this thread.
Everyone seems to be on the same wavelength.
Another way to teach it would be functionally by skills.
Like the Chapters of a book.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
Skunk, this is a great thread. Along with BOB contents, survival priorities, fire building, mental approach issues - a candidate for a sticky.
Resource issues can impact the contents of your course.
One of the important issues for such courses in this area (NE Ohio) is arranging access to farm fields that have been allowed to grow over. Such sites provide abundant materials for expedient shelter-building (and have significant populations of rabbits ). Lacking access to a site like that, we find it hard to give students the experience of building an effective brush shelter. Supplying truckloads of already cut materials is a PITB and only a partial replacement for the experience of gathering and using "brush."
Anyone planning a course for this Winter ceertainly needed a "Plan B" to substitute for the session on building snow shelters.
Burning bans can be a problem in the West.
Resource issues can impact the contents of your course.
One of the important issues for such courses in this area (NE Ohio) is arranging access to farm fields that have been allowed to grow over. Such sites provide abundant materials for expedient shelter-building (and have significant populations of rabbits
). Lacking access to a site like that, we find it hard to give students the experience of building an effective brush shelter. Supplying truckloads of already cut materials is a PITB and only a partial replacement for the experience of gathering and using "brush."Anyone planning a course for this Winter ceertainly needed a "Plan B" to substitute for the session on building snow shelters.
Burning bans can be a problem in the West.
Yes, much agreed, I think all resources in general would be an issue.
If you run enough classes you would defoliate an area of those basic building blocks. It takes a lot of natural debris to build a shelter. Even if one class of 6 to 8 people built one single Debris shelter per week, by the end of the summer the forest floor would be picked clean.
Those suitable lands also have to be shared with hunters and fishermen.
To teach fishing everyone would need a fishing permit, same for hunting. The list goes on.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Those running a training site would have to adapt and overcome....maybe building the same debris hut, over and over, class after class until the materials decomposed.
Wow, I just had a really dumb idea.
They could use artificial Christmas tree foliage.
Man, I can't even believe I typed that. :barf:
SkunkWerX: Taking the "wild" out of the Wilderness since 2007.
If you run enough classes you would defoliate an area of those basic building blocks. It takes a lot of natural debris to build a shelter. Even if one class of 6 to 8 people built one single Debris shelter per week, by the end of the summer the forest floor would be picked clean.
Those suitable lands also have to be shared with hunters and fishermen.
To teach fishing everyone would need a fishing permit, same for hunting. The list goes on.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.
Those running a training site would have to adapt and overcome....maybe building the same debris hut, over and over, class after class until the materials decomposed.
Wow, I just had a really dumb idea.
They could use artificial Christmas tree foliage.
Man, I can't even believe I typed that. :barf:
SkunkWerX: Taking the "wild" out of the Wilderness since 2007.
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2006
- Messages
- 2,718
Skunk, thanks for the ideas. We're on the same wavelength for recycling artificial Christmas trees, but I was thinking of using them for fire making material.
Besides insurance, the next first hurdle is to determine if there would even be an interest locally for a basic training program...market research. I think there would be, but what I think and the reality could be two different things.
If you want to come up and visit the Adirondacks, you're welcome to camp in my woods.
Besides insurance, the next first hurdle is to determine if there would even be an interest locally for a basic training program...market research. I think there would be, but what I think and the reality could be two different things.
If you want to come up and visit the Adirondacks, you're welcome to camp in my woods.
Coldwood, you guys get a lot of tourists in the summer for the various sights and events in the adirondacks, I think with proper advertizing, and the fact the 9-11 happened due South, not too terribly far away, plenty of folks in your region may have a different view on things than pre 9-11.
Thanks for the invite. Very scenic up there.