Destruction Testing Knives

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Dec 16, 2014
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Hello,

So far I have made about ten blades, (If you don't count the two I broke :)) and I have decided it is time to destruction test one of my blades. I have made the knife already, and was wondering what some good tests would be to see if my blades are quality. Thanks!









~BK
 
Seeing how long a blade keeps an edge after being sharpened and stropped would be a good test to see. It would be nice to see how many times you can cut a piece of paper or rope cleanly before the edge dulls. It is a shame to waste a good blade though.. :thumbup:
 
Cutting things I'd always s good test.

Seeing how long a blade keeps an edge after being sharpened and stropped would be a good test to see. It would be nice to see how many times you can cut a piece of paper or rope cleanly before the edge dulls. It is a shame to waste a good blade though.. :thumbup:

I think the OP is talking about destruction testing...
 
I recall a great YT video of Guy (SurviveKnives) batoning through large tree-limbs with one of his early GSO-series 3V fixed blades, using a sledge-hammer. Of course, he couldn't hurt his blade that way.
 
was wondering what some good tests would be to see if my blades are quality.

It depends on what quality you are testing. There is always that tradeoff in knife steels- you can have good edge holding or you can have good toughness, you can't have both. If you are making knives for cutting or slicing, then the ability to hold an edge would be important. You can cut rope or slice cardboard to test that. If you are making survival knives or outdoor knives, you might want a knife that will chop well without breaking. There are videos on youtube of similar tests that you can watch for ideas. One of the tests that impressed me was to dig a hole through a wood 2x4 with the point of the knife. Or chop through a 2x4.
 
To start with, the ABS test isn't to test a blades quality. It is merely a test to see if a smith can forge a blade and then HT it to have certain properties. Most "good quality" knives don't want or need all these properties at the same time.


Destruction testing rarely tells much about a knife's quality ( beyond being able to see the grain). " Pushing it to the limit" testing can tell a lot. The point is to see how the blade holds up in severe use testing. Sometimes, the testing can result in the blades destruction, but that should not be the point of the test.

Pushing a blade in testing near or to the point of destruction can tell a lot. Cutting, chopping, batoning, repetitive cuts through tough material ( cardboard or 1" sisal rope), etc. can show how well the edge holds up. The things learned will be info on edge retention vs. toughness, spine toughness, etc.
Chopping through a car fender, stabbing bricks or an anvil, hitting with a sledge hammer, and bending more than 20° sideways are not real use tests of most knives.

Keep in mind that a test of which the knife type isn't meant to perform is not a real test. Batoning a folder or chopping a 2X4 with a gyuoto are not tests that give any useful info. Slicing paper with a bowie isn't useful, either. In my experience, cutting sisal rope or cardboard gives a blade the most all around edge wear testing. Chopping a 2X4 tests hard use and outdoor knives. Unless it is a multi-purpose pry bar, prying and/or bending in a vise tells you that you are trying to break the knife. Some folks finish the "destruction" testing by doing that, in order to examine the grain, but I don't really think it gains much useful data. If the grain was bad, the knife would have failed many of the earlier tests already.

What to look for in testing:
1) Did the edge wear away, or chip away, or roll over? How long did it take to do that?
2) Did the blade bend in heavy use or remain straight? If it bent, was the force required far beyond normal use level?
3) Did the blade break during a test, and was the test one that the blade would be expected to survive normally (batoning or chopping)? Was the force needed to break the blade excessive or within normal use range? If it broke, was the grain fine or coarse?
4) Compared to a previous knife testing, how did the knife do in the tests?
5) What can you do to increase any of the areas the knife didn't excel at? ( HT, Geometry, Steel choice, etc) How did you achieve the things the knife excelled at? ( HT, Geometry, Steel choice, etc)
 
...you can have good edge holding or you can have good toughness, you can't have both...

Sure you can! Between the furthest extremes either way, there's a sweet spot. ABS bladesmiths, competition cutters, and regular schmoes like me routinely make knives large and small that cut very well, exhibit excellent toughness, and hold an edge very nicely.

Destruction testing rarely tells much about a knife's quality ( beyond being able to see the grain). " "Pushing it to the limit" testing can tell a lot. The point is to see how the blade holds up in severe use testing. Sometimes, the testing can result in the blades destruction, but that should not be the point of the test.

Indeed. All purposely breaking a knife really shows is that the "tester" had a sturdy enough vice and a long enough cheater bar. As for breaking through concrete blocks... you can do the same thing with a cheap screwdriver and a mallet. ;)

Cut up a few cardboard boxes with any knife, and you will soon get an idea of how the edge holds up. Preferably the edge will slowly get flatter, not micro-chip or roll over.

As for "hard use", I feel that any outdoors/tactical/survival knife should be able to take a clean paper-cutting edge, cut/chop/whittle through a 2x4, dig/pry a hole through through a 2x4, and still cut paper without showing any noticeable chips or rolling along the edge, taking a set (staying bent) or losing its tip. Obviously it shouldn't take all day, but speed is not a big issue in the 2x4 tests... all I'm trying to see is if the knife holds up to hard work and just as importantly, how comfortable the handle really is. It should not hurt your hand to do this, even with a light 4" blade.

You might be surprised to find that it's really not that difficult to build a knife that can do this, with a wide variety of steels. Overall geometry and appropriate HT are the most important factors, as always.
 
Thanks! I think that I will do all the tests that James and Stacey said to do, and at the end destroy it (because the design of the blade isn't very good and it seems like fun ;)).
 
I think both James and Stacy have presented some very rational and cogent parameters for acquiring the most useful data for the use of a given knife. Remarkably put, gentlemen. Edge retention while cutting cardboard, paper, or thick materials is a good real world test considering that is what I commonly use knives for when working. Granted, I won't likely use my knife as a pry bar; but, I think it is good to know how much lateral stress a knife can be anticipated to endure before acquiring a set or breaking. In the extremely unlikely scenario I have to use it as such, I find it comforting to know that it will be unlikely to achieve either failure if I am completely unable to find a better lever. Best of luck with your testing, Bear.
 
Sure you can! Between the furthest extremes either way, there's a sweet spot. ABS bladesmiths, competition cutters, and regular schmoes like me routinely make knives large and small that cut very well, exhibit excellent toughness, and hold an edge very nicely.

My statement was obviously a simplification. There is that tradeoff in steel but different alloys move the tradeoff point up and down the scale. As you said the heat treat and geometry are also important. And who said you were a regular schmoe?
 
I did the tests and they turned out great. But, I'm unsure when the blade should break when you bend it, and what the grain should look like. The blade is 1/8" 1095, by the way.
 
There is always that tradeoff in knife steels- you can have good edge holding or you can have good toughness, you can't have both.

Yeah, you really can.

There's another way of looking at that. You can very easily have a knife that has both poor toughness and poor edge holding. Those two qualities can easily go hand in hand, so while there are trade-offs, it's not a simple continuum. And it is surprising how much good edge holding and good toughness (and good cutting geometry) can be had in the same blade.


To the op - there is a tendency to develop one's work towards the tests it will be subjected to. Beware over emphasizing one property at the expense of others, for example extremely thick tactical knives that don't cut. One can take a mediocre steel, give it a halfass HT and make a really thick blade out of it and test that blade and it doesn't break in rough use and mistake that as a good test result.

I recommend to everyone that they test their work. The trick is removing yourself and your subjective impressions as a variable in that equation. For example, sitting down and testing a blade by making 200 cuts in rope might seem like a good test. But so what? Perhaps the last time you cut rope you only got 100 cuts, so doesn't that mean something you changed was an improvement? Is 200 even a good number? Who knows? Maybe the last batch of rope or cardboard or leather was just really dirty?

You need comparative test standards that get run through all test cuts in the same media as a datum point. Get a good VG10 Spiderco and others. You want similar steels and similar geometry to what you're testing in order to form any good judgement more than just a loosely held opinion. particularly if you're just getting into it and don't have a lot of first hand experience using high end cutlery.

Part of that geometry equation is developing a reliable technique to set a cutting edge at a repeatable edge angle. Rough tests for edge stability might involve chopping seasoned hardwood and the difference between testing a 15 degree edge and a 20 degree edge is enormous. A lot of people just eyeball it, but there are limits to how much you can develop your work without removing random variation from your test procedures.

My own testing starts with cardboard, then leather, then whittling very hard wood in a specific repeatable way compared against known standards. The results are observed under strong light and magnification. If it is a rough use knife I'll also chop up a cinder block to confirm it will do that without breaking. That last one, the cinder block, is somewhat controversial because really thick soft knives can do that well, so it's no measure of the quality of a knife. But if an otherwise good knife that is performing well will also do that, that's relevant for certain work.

Repeatability, objectivity and relevancy are the goals in any testing. Anything that simply looks impressive but tells you nothing is just theatrics.
 
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