Diagrams?

DBell said:
OK, another noob question here:
I checked out the Klawhorn Redi-Edge Pro and Pocket Pro.
Somewhere, years ago, I "learned" that this style of sharpener, that "shaves" a bit of the edge off, was deprecated, and treated as a lazy housewife's tool for putting a crappy edge on a carving knife, but not a "real" sharpening system.
They are certainly easy to use! Are they considered useful for a good (not even for a "fine") knife? Do they cut away too much metal, if used frequently? Are these or other similar models adjustable, to set the bevel angle?

Thanks! Dave
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:D I dont care if it is a lazy house"wifes" :D sharpener!! It works great!!
I use them for my "fine" knives. I also use my lansky, either one removes metal from the cutting surface of the knife. It doesnt cut away too much metal, you dont force the knife blade down onto it. just lightly draw the blade back across the carbides, and no they are not adjustable. Why do you want to adjust the bevel angle? If the knife is sharp its sharp? I dont care what the angle is if it cuts like a razor its a great bevel to me... I can have my knife sharp 4 times faster with the klawhorn compared to the lansky, the lansky works great too, but when we cut up our 3 deer this year I wasnt going to sit in the garage and set up the lansky to sharpen my knives.
Just left the Klawhorn out and run the knife across it a couple times and it is sharp as ever. Just my .02. I dont really care what the angle is on my knives I guess as long as they are sharp... :D Hope this helps
 
Hey, I said it was another noob question!

Sounds too good, that's all. If it works, I might actually be able to carry a sharp knife all the time!

Thanks...

Dave
 
Embarrassingly dumb question:

We have been talking about the inexpensive, carbide-"V" Redi-Edge Pro, right?
Not the $120 EdgePro, Inc. stone/clamp/guide system?

:o Dave :o
 
DBell said:
Hey, I said it was another noob question!

Sounds too good, that's all. If it works, I might actually be able to carry a sharp knife all the time!

Thanks...

Dave
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I know :D I'm just a noob too LOL

It works. I dont mind being the lazy house"wife" LOL
 
DBell said:
Embarrassingly dumb question:

We have been talking about the inexpensive, carbide-"V" Redi-Edge Pro, right?
Not the $120 EdgePro, Inc. stone/clamp/guide system?

:o Dave :o
Click to expand...

I was talking about the cheaper one. I paid 20-30 for mine.
I like it :D
 
Aelius said:
I can't just look at the knife and the stone and say "That's a 12 degree angle" and then adjust it accordingly to get a 15 degree angle, I'm not that percise.
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I don't think anyone would claim to be, most people can sharpen very accurately at the angles they tend to commonly use but few people can eyeball the angle on a knife to exactly. As a rough guide, if the edge is as wide as it is thick then the angle is about 25 per side, if it is about twice as wide as it is thick then it is about 15 degrees per side. Most people can judge these types of differences fairly readily unless the distances are small. You can't estimate the angles on Boye's knives for example as the edge is like 0.005" thick so your precision by eye is too low. Jeff answered the rest of it better than I could.

-Cliff
 
The carbide scrapers will certainly give you an effective cutting edge, but they have several disadvantages. The foremost problem is that they leave a weakened edge. When you scrape the material off the edge material tends to have a burr and is microscopically ragged. That makes for a great slicing edge on a carving knife, but it will roll over and breakdown more rapidly than a normally honed knife on harder material. Another problem is that the tool can kind of wander a little both up and down and even side to side. With a few applications it isn't noticeable, but with time you start to see a little edge irregularity like mild sloppy waves. The third problem is the most common, people get impatient and use high pressure on the tool. This removes excess material and you waste blade steel.

I might give one of these to a housewife or my brother inlaw to use on soft kitchen knives, but I wouldn't use it on a high grade steel blade.
 
Jeff Clark said:
The carbide scrapers will certainly give you an effective cutting edge, but they have several disadvantages. The foremost problem is that they leave a weakened edge. When you scrape the material off the edge material tends to have a burr and is microscopically ragged. That makes for a great slicing edge on a carving knife, but it will roll over and breakdown more rapidly than a normally honed knife on harder material. Another problem is that the tool can kind of wander a little both up and down and even side to side. With a few applications it isn't noticeable, but with time you start to see a little edge irregularity like mild sloppy waves. The third problem is the most common, people get impatient and use high pressure on the tool. This removes excess material and you waste blade steel.

I might give one of these to a housewife or my brother inlaw to use on soft kitchen knives, but I wouldn't use it on a high grade steel blade.
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I have never had a problem, but yes you dont want to apply alot of pressure! :D I dont notice any waves or irregularities? Maybe I havent used them along enough. :D
When we say high grade blade steels what are we talking about? It works even better on my ATS-34 than the 420HC. I DO NOT push hard though just enough to sharpen the very edge, I dont want to see steel rolling off the carbides :D
 
Jeff Clark said:
The carbide scrapers will certainly give you an effective cutting edge, but they have several disadvantages. The foremost problem is that they leave a weakened edge. When you scrape the material off the edge material tends to have a burr and is microscopically ragged. That makes for a great slicing edge on a carving knife, but it will roll over and breakdown more rapidly than a normally honed knife on harder material. Another problem is that the tool can kind of wander a little both up and down and even side to side. With a few applications it isn't noticeable, but with time you start to see a little edge irregularity like mild sloppy waves. The third problem is the most common, people get impatient and use high pressure on the tool. This removes excess material and you waste blade steel.

I might give one of these to a housewife or my brother inlaw to use on soft kitchen knives, but I wouldn't use it on a high grade steel blade.
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Guys please dont get me wrong either, I am not saying the klawhorn carbide "scraper" knife sharpeners are the cure to the worlds problems. I am going to assume that the guys with over 4,000 posts on BF didnt just go out and buy their first knives and sharpeners today. I just suggested the carbide sharpeners because thats where I started. What did you guys start with? Did you want to sharpen the spine? A guy who is a "noob" as they put it, would do just fine with a klawhorn it gets your knife razor sharp and fast. Just follow the simple instructions. If a guy asks about sharpenening the *spine* of his knife I would highly recommend a simple sharpener... I have and have had many knife sharpeners since and before the klawhorn, and the only two I now use are the Lansky and the Klawhorn. The Klawhorn is now used for quick touch ups.
When you butcher 3 deer in a row do you get out the lansky and spend 5 minutes sharpening your knife? I want something quicker. Like I said dont take this the wrong way, it is just to clarify, not insult anyone or tick em off.
I dont think anyone is an idiot but we are all at different levels of knife collection and use here. Baby steps :D
 
wh4f, I was particularly thinking of ATS-34, so if it works for you I may have to adjust my opinion.

I have been known to sharpen just about anything. Back 40 years ago when I was 16 a friend's mother gave me a sharpening task, she asked me to sharpen her carbide sharpener. At the time I didn't have a diamond hone or a grinder so I couldn't really rework the carbide bit; however I did manage to dismantle the sharpener and flip the bit around to get her fresh edges. So I'm probably the only guy I know who has sharpened a carbide sharpener. Her knives did exhibit wavy edges. I trued them up using a file and a bench hone. I suggested that she get a stone, but she liked her scraper.
 
Jeff Clark said:
wh4f, I was particularly thinking of ATS-34, so if it works for you I may have to adjust my opinion.

I have been known to sharpen just about anything. Back 40 years ago when I was 16 a friend's mother gave me a sharpening task, she asked me to sharpen her carbide sharpener. At the time I didn't have a diamond hone or a grinder so I couldn't really rework the carbide bit; however I did manage to dismantle the sharpener and flip the bit around to get her fresh edges. So I'm probably the only guy I know who has sharpened a carbide sharpener. Her knives did exhibit wavy edges. I trued them up using a file and a bench hone. I suggested that she get a stone, but she liked her scraper.
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We all cant like the same girl either Jeff :D
I also probably dont notice waves because I dont only use the klawhorn - its just for quick touch ups now! I use the lansky now when they are very dull!
You can order new carbides for $4.00 from the factory too now.:thumbup:
 
Aelius said:
That's exactly what I thought of it. So to make that slice of pie a lower angle, you must cut off part of the back portion, or "shave the spine" of the knife. According to that person I quoted, I should never shave the spine... but that's the only way to lower the angle as far as I know.

It's just the terms they use.

Flats
Grinds
Primary Grinds
V-Grinds

and a slew of other terms that I feel people expect me to know.
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Aelius,
Not sure if you ever did get a diagram or explanation that helped you figure it out. I put this diagram together for you. I hope it clarifies thing a bit.

FlatGrindBlade.jpg
 
augustus88 said:
Aelius,
Not sure if you ever did get a diagram or explanation that helped you figure it out. I put this diagram together for you.
Click to expand...

Nice to see someone put that much effort into trying to clearify an issue for another member.

-Cliff
 
matt321 said:
Augustus88,
What software did you use to make the diagram? Nice work!
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Thanks guys!

I used Adobe Illustrator to create it then imported into Photoshop so I could save it as a jpeg.

I'm a professional illustrator, so this really didn't take too long to toss together.

This however is more indicative of my usual work.
gators.jpg
 
augustus88 said:
Aelius,
Not sure if you ever did get a diagram or explanation that helped you figure it out. I put this diagram together for you. I hope it clarifies thing a bit.

FlatGrindBlade.jpg
Click to expand...

Ahh, that makes some sense of it :D Thanks a lot for putting that together augustus :)
 
augustus88 said:
Aelius,
Not sure if you ever did get a diagram or explanation that helped you figure it out. I put this diagram together for you. I hope it clarifies thing a bit.
Click to expand...
That's excellent, Augustus! I saved a copy here: http://linxnet.com/misc/knives/FlatGrindBlade.jpg for posterity. PhotoBucket won't keep things around indefinitely, I believe?

(Maybe I'll load it into the Gimp and add your BF username and a URL to this thread, for attribution and reference.)
 
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