Diamond,ceramic, natural or synthetic waterstone for carbon steel.

I am new here, thank you all for your information. I enjoy the art of sharpening even if I am new and rather amateur at it. Not a complete novice but would like to be much better at it. I currently own 2 Miyabi knives. both are very hard steals. VG10/CMV60 Cobalt Molybdenum Vanadium steel with a hardness of 60 Rockwell. I also own a Twin Signature Zwilling Henckels Santoku Knife "Ice Hardened" I was originally looking at Arkansas Black 1200grit stones but after reading your comments regarding the hardness of the steel I have changed my mind to the synthetic stones, I found a kit that has a 400grit, 1000grit, 5000grit and includes a cleaning stone.

your thoughts please? the price is $299 for the whole kit. I have looked at individual stone purchase and it comes out just a little more for the same size stones. Also is it safe to use these stones for lower quality steel like a Chicago Cutlery chef knife?
Thank you all for your help.
 
60 is not "very hard" it is average for this type of steel, 64 is very hard. Specialty "super steel" alloys go even harder.
That said I am quite happy with my Shapton Pro stones for free hand or my Shapton Glass for stones in my guided sharpener.

Save the diamond plates for the high vanadium alloys where the Shaptons fail.
 
lsnew said:
I am new here, thank you all for your information. I enjoy the art of sharpening even if I am new and rather amateur at it. Not a complete novice but would like to be much better at it. I currently own 2 Miyabi knives. both are very hard steals. VG10/CMV60 Cobalt Molybdenum Vanadium steel with a hardness of 60 Rockwell. I also own a Twin Signature Zwilling Henckels Santoku Knife "Ice Hardened" I was originally looking at Arkansas Black 1200grit stones but after reading your comments regarding the hardness of the steel I have changed my mind to the synthetic stones, I found a kit that has a 400grit, 1000grit, 5000grit and includes a cleaning stone.

your thoughts please? the price is $299 for the whole kit. I have looked at individual stone purchase and it comes out just a little more for the same size stones. Also is it safe to use these stones for lower quality steel like a Chicago Cutlery chef knife?
Thank you all for your help.
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For what you describe, an 8" $30USD combo Soft/Black (or hard) Arkansas stone will do just fine. I'm not sure what gimmicky marketing term "Ice Hardened" is exactly but I'm guessing maybe some kind of cryo treatment. At any rate, the hardness is not really the major concern here. I have a Yaxell Dragon Fire in BD1N at a claimed 63 HRC and it sharpens like a dream on my Arkansas stones. I also have a number of pocket knives in VG10 that sharpen up fine. A high vandium content, say like in S90V or S110V, now that is different. It isn't the hardness rating per se with those steels but the vandium content and those would not be compatible with Arkansas stones. Hardness can be challenging in steels like ZDP189 but those situations are much more rare than just judging sharpen-ability by the HRC.

Get a decent strop to go with whatever stone/s you choose and maybe even a nice honing rod and you'll be set. At least that is what I would do.

You could also look at the offerings by forum member @FortyTwoBlades. While I don't have firsthand experience with his products yet they are very well respected and definitely on my list to buy and try.
 
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Eli Chaps said:
For what you describe, an 8" $30USD combo Soft/Black (or hard) Arkansas stone will do just fine. I'm not sure what gimmicky marketing term "Ice Hardened" is exactly but I'm guessing maybe some kind of cryo treatment. At any rate, the hardness is not really the major concern here. I have a Yaxell Dragon Fire in BD1N at a claimed 63 HRC and it sharpens like a dream on my Arkansas stones. I also have a number of pocket knives in VG10 that sharpen up fine. A high vandium content, say like in S90V or S110V, now that is different. It isn't the hardness rating per se with those steels but the vandium content and those would not be compatible with Arkansas stones. Hardness can be challenging in steels like ZDP189 but those situations are much more rare than just judging sharpen-ability by the HRC.

Get a decent strop to go with whatever stone/s you choose and maybe even a nice honing rod and you'll be set. At least that is what I would do.

You could also look at the offerings by forum member @FortyTwoBlades. While I don't have firsthand experience with his products that are very well respected and definitely on my list to buy and try.
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Thank you so much for the information. I was worried after reading above in the thread regarding the wrong stones doing damage. I had no idea there were so many types of steel used in blade making. I like my knifes razor sharp, I keep my utility Buck knives the same way. There is nothing worse than going to a friends house or family and they ask you to cut or dice for them because they know you enjoy it at home and their knives are not capable of cutting my wrists. makes me crazy that people spend a fortune on expensive knifes and then don't take care of it?
thanks again for your help. by the way $30 for an arkansas black stone? where? all the sites I see for 8"x2" or 8"x3" with dual grit are around $80 to $100.
oh and my strop is a hard wood block style, 8" x 2" leather and I use the green micro fine honing compound.
really, thanks again for all your info. you guys are amazing.
 
lsnew said:
Thank you so much for the information. I was worried after reading above in the thread regarding the wrong stones doing damage. I had no idea there were so many types of steel used in blade making. I like my knifes razor sharp, I keep my utility Buck knives the same way. There is nothing worse than going to a friends house or family and they ask you to cut or dice for them because they know you enjoy it at home and their knives are not capable of cutting my wrists. makes me crazy that people spend a fortune on expensive knifes and then don't take care of it?
thanks again for your help. by the way $30 for an arkansas black stone? where? all the sites I see for 8"x2" or 8"x3" with dual grit are around $80 to $100.
oh and my strop is a hard wood block style, 8" x 2" leather and I use the green micro fine honing compound.
really, thanks again for all your info. you guys are amazing.
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Check Natural Whetstone Company.
 
Gents, in future please take any recommendations of non supporting vendors to PM or email so we can avoid the posts being flagged by other members, vendors or staff.

Thanks.
 
Blues said:
Gents, in future please take any recommendations of non supporting vendors to PM or email so we can avoid the posts being flagged by other members, vendors or staff.

Thanks.
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My apologies Blues. I wasn't sure and a little worried about that and probably should've erred on the caution side.
 
No worries, Eli. I know you intended no harm. It just keeps things easier for everyone that way.
(And a lot less work for the mods. Hint...)
 
Blues, where can I find supporting vendors? Under resources there are no vendors selling or recommending stones? is there a links page? I would gladly support people or vendors on this page before going elsewhere. there is a lot of information to be had from all this experience. thanks
 
lsnew said:
Blues, where can I find supporting vendors? Under resources there are no vendors selling or recommending stones? is there a links page? I would gladly support people or vendors on this page before going elsewhere. there is a lot of information to be had from all this experience. thanks
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This list is updated periodically. There may be dealers listed who are no longer actively supporting the site. A quick check will show their status via their profile.

Supporting Dealers

Within this sub-forum we have several supporting dealers as well as knifemakers, craftsmen, service providers. Their status is indicated under their avatars so they are quickly recognized when they post.
 
Thank you, I will look at the list.
I just received a response to my question of hardness from Miyabi and this blade has a hardness of 63 Rockwell. So do you consider this a super steel or still a safe steel on Arkansas. and or do you feel for the money that the Ceramic stones will do a faster and better finish?
thanks again
 
For VG10 I'd personally opt for either diamond and ceramic hones; or silicon carbide (Crystolon) and aluminum oxide (India). Another more expensive option would be Shapton Glass splash and go water stones.

A good alternative would be to look at some of the offerings by @FortyTwoBlades

If you go that route, I'd let him suggest the proper stones as he knows them inside and out and can provide the best guidance.

You have many good alternatives.

If it's truly 63 Rockwell you're better to look elsewhere than the Arkansas stones (which I'd recommend for your carbon steel blades for the most part).
 
Blues said:
For VG10 I'd personally opt for either diamond and ceramic hones; or silicon carbide (Crystolon) and aluminum oxide (India). Another more expensive option would be Shapton Glass splash and go water stones.

A good alternative would be to look at some of the offerings by @FortyTwoBlades

If you go that route, I'd let him suggest the proper stones as he knows them inside and out and can provide the best guidance.

You have many good alternatives.

If it's truly 63 Rockwell you're better to look elsewhere than the Arkansas stones (which I'd recommend for your carbon steel blades for the most part).
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Again, thank you. you knowledge is amazing, that goes for all of you guys. I think I will look into the glass/ceramic sharpen stones which will be able to handle all my needs. hard and older softer steals. As I take care of my blades and don't hack them up I was thinking 1000/3000/6000 would suffice. do I even need 6000 or would 1000 4000 be enough. I want a nice finish with fine cut. Not looking to be mirror finished for kitchen knives. does that make sense?
 
L lsnew

You're welcome but my personal knowledge is only a fraction of that of many of our members here.

Regarding Shapton Glass stones, be advised as @Jason B. and others have often counseled, once the steel reaches a 4% or higher Vanadium carbide content, the Shapton Glass stones will struggle and you'll be better served turning to diamond hones, whether plated or bonded. So keep that in mind as a rule of thumb.

(You might then look at Venev bonded diamond hones, which are offered via @Gritomatic a site supporter here. Or plated diamond hones by DMT or Atoma.)

Otherwise the Shaptons have many excellent features and advocates. Jason B. has recommended to me in our prior discussions not going over 4000 grit for EDC pocket knives as a practical matter. Just depends on how much of a polish you might need or want. The 500 and 2000 are the most recommended pairing for general usage and is what I'd suggest if you decide to go that route. (You can always add later if you feel the need.)
 
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