Does anyone have experience using DMT's Diamond Paste? It comes in 3 different strengths 6 microns, 3 microns and 1 micron. The recommendation is that it be used on a flat piece of a hardwood, maple for instance, or other very hard surfaces like marble or glass. Just wondering if anyone has tried this method to sharpen different blades. Wondering if it could be put on a leather strop.
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Diamond Paste
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Jason B.
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Yes, it works and works well. I like the 6 and 3 micron paste but much prefer something like hand american diamond spray for anything less. The main difference is the carat weight, the DMT paste has around 1 carat while the HA has 12-21 carat. The more carat content to the compound the faster it works, in paste form you can find amplex compound at www.classicshaving.com its a water based compound and works well also (about a 5 or 6 carat count)
MDF also works well and is cheaper than hardwood, the compounds can be used on many other things too including leather.
MDF also works well and is cheaper than hardwood, the compounds can be used on many other things too including leather.
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... so a pound of rocks does weigh differently from a pound of feathers. After all, they are of different shape. Hmmmm.....
I don't think so.
A one micron sized grit will remove a one micron sized piece of whatever it is in contact with, unless it gouges or tears out larger chunks because of poor structural quality of (in this case) steel. Diamonds may do it more easily as they are harder, but a one micron cut is a one micron cut is a one micron cut as long as the pressure remains the same. Think about it.
Stitchawl
wouldn't the shape of the grit factor in somewhere? i would imagine diamonds having "crisper" edges and thus cut the steel in a different manner.
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Diamond grit is sharper and harder (diamond crystals have a different shape). For the high alloy stainless and tool steel the effect of diamond grit is completely different than chromium oxide. One micron chromium oxide tends to cut the softer iron matrix around large carbides in the abrasion-resistant steels that have carbides larger than one-micron. The diamond grit will actually cut and shape the tough carbides. The diamond will give you a finer edge on those steels.
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Look around the web - I just did and it appears that the 1 micron is merely size and does not indicate the actual shape. There are deviations in shape that affect the cutting ability of the media. There is much discussion of deviations affecting performance as well as the shapes of the common media affecting cutting performance as well as surface finish.
I doubt it matters much to me, but it is.
So, not all grit of a nominal size are equal.
Jason B.
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Thank you.
Sorry... but I just don't buy it. Posting something to the Internet does NOT make it a fact. There are entire groups and dozens of web pages devoted to Alien landings, Atlantis, and Elvis sightings. We need to look at both sides of the issue.
Yes, CrO2 will cut softer iron. But it also cuts carbides. Otherwise one would never be able to sharpen harder steels without diamond stones. Obviously that is not what is happening in the real world. People are using all sorts of different stones for the newer hard steels. Some cut faster or slower, but all of them cut eventually.
Assuming pressure remains the same, a one micron grit will cut a one micron swath. If you use less pressure, you can perhaps use less than the full one micron with a sharper shaped crystal. That pressure differential might be the weight of a human hangnail. I know my own sharpening skills don't get measured in those sorts of weight differentials. I doubt if anyone's do. It would take some sort of machine control for this to have any effect, and I don't think that is what is being discussed here.
Stitchawl
Yes, CrO2 will cut softer iron. But it also cuts carbides. Otherwise one would never be able to sharpen harder steels without diamond stones. Obviously that is not what is happening in the real world. People are using all sorts of different stones for the newer hard steels. Some cut faster or slower, but all of them cut eventually.
True again. Some cut faster than others. They don't cut a different size.
Assuming pressure remains the same, a one micron grit will cut a one micron swath. If you use less pressure, you can perhaps use less than the full one micron with a sharper shaped crystal. That pressure differential might be the weight of a human hangnail. I know my own sharpening skills don't get measured in those sorts of weight differentials. I doubt if anyone's do. It would take some sort of machine control for this to have any effect, and I don't think that is what is being discussed here.
Stitchawl
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I added some remarks in BOLD.
Jason B.
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No one ever said that it was going to cut a different size scratch just a different shaped one. You don't believe what others post on the net but were supposed to believe your word?
My research, experience, knowledge and time invested leades me to believe that what your saying is only to provoke a pissing match, otherwise a Arkansas stone, a waterstone, a ceramic stone, and a diamond stone of all the same grit and micron size would create equal edges on all steels. But this is not the case as all those stones all create different effects on wide range of steels. This argument over abrasives all the time is getting a bit crazy.
Stitchawl, you have said it before "water over rocks will wear them down too" but I don't see anyone using water to sharpen their knife?
My research, experience, knowledge and time invested leades me to believe that what your saying is only to provoke a pissing match, otherwise a Arkansas stone, a waterstone, a ceramic stone, and a diamond stone of all the same grit and micron size would create equal edges on all steels. But this is not the case as all those stones all create different effects on wide range of steels. This argument over abrasives all the time is getting a bit crazy.
Stitchawl, you have said it before "water over rocks will wear them down too" but I don't see anyone using water to sharpen their knife?
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in theory, theory and practice are the same, but in practice, they ain't.
The sort (monocrystalline or not) of diamonds matters, plus there isn't a direct equivalent as you presume and aver, between differing abrasives with nominally identical grit sizes, it just ain't that simple.
abrasives break down and the size of the scratch widens and shallows, swarf builds up and sharpening surfaces load up and degrade, and the original 'grit size' becomes a convention, not a description but an approximation.
To be sure, fine grained steels won't serve as good examples to illustrate differences in abrasive action, but something coarse grained like D2 will make it obvious, most blatantly at the polishing and burnishing stage.
The sort (monocrystalline or not) of diamonds matters, plus there isn't a direct equivalent as you presume and aver, between differing abrasives with nominally identical grit sizes, it just ain't that simple.
abrasives break down and the size of the scratch widens and shallows, swarf builds up and sharpening surfaces load up and degrade, and the original 'grit size' becomes a convention, not a description but an approximation.
To be sure, fine grained steels won't serve as good examples to illustrate differences in abrasive action, but something coarse grained like D2 will make it obvious, most blatantly at the polishing and burnishing stage.
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No... Actually I don't really care if you believe what I say or not.
You listen to what I say and either accept it or reject it depending upon your own opinions, just as I listen to what you say and take from that what I find useful. As shown in your recent posts about stropping, you now agree that the substrate material (as long as it's smooth and firm) doesn't need to be leather. We take what we find to work and we run with it. I don't expect more from the internet.
is just that; your research, experience, knowledge and time. Mine leads me to believe differently. For every scientist who says one thing, there is another just as well educated who says the opposite. Water on a stone or oil? Or should it be dry? Don't get upset just because someone disagrees with you.
I see them cutting steel with water every time I look at custom metal work. It works for what it's intended to do. It doesn't work for sharpening.
Stitchawl
Jason B.
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I don't get mad or upset, speaking in text and lacking verbal emotion probably makes it seem that way for most of us though.
I know your experienced in this field just like I but what I don't understand is the abstract comments that seem to degrade the discussion. You of most people should more than understand about different abrasives, the way they break down, and the effect they have on steel.
I never said you couldn't use compound on other surfaces I said I get the best results from leather so that's what I suggest.
Smarta$$
you know what I ment by that.
I know your experienced in this field just like I but what I don't understand is the abstract comments that seem to degrade the discussion. You of most people should more than understand about different abrasives, the way they break down, and the effect they have on steel.
I never said you couldn't use compound on other surfaces I said I get the best results from leather so that's what I suggest.
Smarta$$
you know what I ment by that.