Diamond plates from CKTG for edge pro - good?

M

mauidogg

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Jun 20, 2011
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So I am really wanting to get an Edgepro and I been looking all over, checking out all the sites and stones available. I saw the shapton and chosera stones on CKTG and Jende as well. But then I saw that CKTG has a complete diamond set for the Edgepro and have it as a package deal. Anyone try these or have any opinions. I know you get what you pay for and these seem to be a great deal if they are good quality.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edproapcudis.html
and here at the bottom of the page has the individual stones at 20 a piece?
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edgepro.html
 
I have no idea who makes the plates for the CKTG set, I've not heard of anyone using them...

In the same price range, you can get a TREMENDOUSLY good kit in their Chosera "Apex-5" set. Those waterstones are top-of-the-line, that's the set I would pick. I'd probably also toss in one of the Atoma 140s from Ken's Corner at CKTG, or Tom over at Jende. It makes that first bevel setting extremely quick and easy, and serves as an easy way to flatten your other stones.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/edge-pro-sharpener.html
 
Do you know if the grits from Chosera are the same grits as from Edgepro? If so, is there a reason you would buy their entire kit (if your existing EP kit stones are still good)? Not being a jerk, I honestly want to know if there is a benefit :).

Also, if you get their 2K, 3K, 5k, 10K stones, do you ever have to use the EP tapes?

Thanks,
 
Gunsnknives said:
Do you know if the grits from Chosera are the same grits as from Edgepro? If so, is there a reason you would buy their entire kit (if your existing EP kit stones are still good)? Not being a jerk, I honestly want to know if there is a benefit :).

Also, if you get their 2K, 3K, 5k, 10K stones, do you ever have to use the EP tapes?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Chosera and Ep stones are not the same grits. The Grand unified grit chart has all the info on that. Ep stones are good from what I read. The major benefit to the chosera stones is their higher quality and available grits.
 
Let's run that one down a bit. :)

As Mauidogg mentioned, they are not the same grits, and it's layed out in the sticky.

The stock EP stones are not BAD, they're just not awesome. Some of them are a lot better than the others, the 320 and 600 stones are the best of the stock ones, IMO. The Chosera and Shapton offerings for the EP both are FAR superior, at a correspondingly higher price tag. They cut more smoothly, load less, and require less frequent lapping to stay flat. Once you are done with the Chosera series there, you will have no reason to go to the tapes.
 
I have an EP "Apex 5" that I got from CKTG that came with the Chosera waterstones. The Chosera stones are first rate, they will help you achieve a mirror polished hair whittling bevel every time. I highly recommend them.... and no, you will have no need to use the EP tapes.

/dusty
 
Figured this video I made might be useful here. :)

[video=youtube;ZdhLjGzrnk0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdhLjGzrnk0[/video]
 
I ordered the Choosera EP kit from CKTG and have gotten great results with it. But obviously the lower grit stones are going to get the most use. I actually used the Choosera 400grit stone enough to crack it. This was after sharpening 30-50 knives. So Ive been trying out different stones in the lower grits. I got some of the Congress Tools mold masters which work great and are a nice cheap option but they wear far too quickly to make it worth it. I think it makes good fiscal sense to get a diamond stone for the lower grits because those get used often and they are just establishing a bevel not polishing. Spend the money for good stones for 1k and beyond.

I ordered a 320grit DMT stone from Jende but they are taking their sweet time shipping it out. So in the meantime I ordered the 600grit and 1k CKTG diamond plates. My initial impression is that for 20 bucks it seems like a great deal especially since they are already mounted to be used on the EP. I will update the thread when I get a chance to use them next week.
 
Personally, I'd grab the 140 Atoma, myself. It's a bit pricey at $75, but it will last forever, and it cuts like nothing else. From there, the stock 220 can easily remove the diamond scratches, and your progression can advance into the Chosera range. Also, if you cracked a stone, I suspect you were leaning on it fairly hard. Remember, light, LIGHT pressure. The weight of the arm and stone is more than enough, and actually can even be a bit TOO much at higher grits. In the 8K level and above, I'm usually supporting the handle a bit with my palm to take some of the weight off of it. It doesn't look like much, but you have a tremendous leverage advantage out at the tip!

Jende (Tom) is an extremely good guy, he'll get it to you, no fear, I've purchased from him a couple times now.
 
The one thing that excites me about the 140 Atoma is being able to dry reprofile customer knives. I have to spend at least 10 minutes on each of my customer's blades taping them up as to ensure that they stay scratch free during the initial grinding process.

Would the 140 atoma allow me to reprofile without using water, which will negate the need for tape? (the higher grit chosera stones don't seem capable of scratching the knife with the slurry)
 
I would not trust it enough for that, I think. Even if the plate loses no grit at all, all it would take would be a single piece of loose grit from the room or something like that to leave a big, wiggly scratch. But yes, it CAN be run dry. Remember, light touch is essential with a diamond plate, it cuts extremely fast with just contact pressure.

Generally when I use my diamond plates, I use them with just a couple drops of water and dish soap, it helps keep the plate floating smoothly. Don't have to SOAK them, just a few drops on the surface, and wipe the swarf away every once in a while. Generally I just put a big piece of tape down each side, and set it back from the edge a quarter-inch or so, takes me about a minute a blade side. Doesn't take much, but I find it easier to tape the blade than the table, and more likely not to scratch.
 
Komitadjie said:
I would not trust it enough for that, I think. Even if the plate loses no grit at all, all it would take would be a single piece of loose grit from the room or something like that to leave a big, wiggly scratch. But yes, it CAN be run dry. Remember, light touch is essential with a diamond plate, it cuts extremely fast with just contact pressure.

Generally when I use my diamond plates, I use them with just a couple drops of water and dish soap, it helps keep the plate floating smoothly. Don't have to SOAK them, just a few drops on the surface, and wipe the swarf away every once in a while. Generally I just put a big piece of tape down each side, and set it back from the edge a quarter-inch or so, takes me about a minute a blade side. Doesn't take much, but I find it easier to tape the blade than the table, and more likely not to scratch.
Click to expand...

When I'm free hand sharpening I too use water and dish soap on my DMT stones. I was hoping for a dry reprofile, but I guess it would work better wet. The quest for easy and quick reprofiling continues.


It takes me a very short time to tape my own blades, as I am not too concerned with them not getting scratched. Customer knives on the other hand need to be taped completely, and it is very time consuming. I sharpen some VERY expensive knives for people, I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I scratched their knife.

That is one thing that has always excited me about the wicked edge system. Almost no chance of scratching the knife. I will probably never get one though. I see the EP as a much more versatile system.
 
Well, I have both, and the WEPS IS extremely fast and easy for reprofiling. The stock 100-grit plates are quite capable, and I would imagine that if you picked up aftermarket paddles with Atoma 140s on them? Wow, look out!

I only have up through 2K Shaptons for it, though, so my edges are not nearly as fine as they are using the Choseras on my EP. At some point I will complete my Shapton collection with a 5K/10K set, and a 15K/30K set. That's down the road a ways, though. Honestly, I do pretty much all my work on a belt grinder, and NOTHING beats the belt for high-speed reprofiling and repairs. I consider the EP a hobby, I use it on my own knives, and on the occasional knife from a friend that I trust enough not to make it just a waste of my time. For pretty much all of my user knives and all the stuff I do down at the sporting goods place, the belt is my go-to.
 
Komitadjie said:
Well, I have both, and the WEPS IS extremely fast and easy for reprofiling. The stock 100-grit plates are quite capable, and I would imagine that if you picked up aftermarket paddles with Atoma 140s on them? Wow, look out!

I only have up through 2K Shaptons for it, though, so my edges are not nearly as fine as they are using the Choseras on my EP. At some point I will complete my Shapton collection with a 5K/10K set, and a 15K/30K set. That's down the road a ways, though. Honestly, I do pretty much all my work on a belt grinder, and NOTHING beats the belt for high-speed reprofiling and repairs. I consider the EP a hobby, I use it on my own knives, and on the occasional knife from a friend that I trust enough not to make it just a waste of my time. For pretty much all of my user knives and all the stuff I do down at the sporting goods place, the belt is my go-to.
Click to expand...


You have no clue how much I struggle with the part in red. I have a good friend for whom I use to sharpen his knives for free, many of them. One time he took a knife I had just spent 45 minutes on, and literally took it out of my hands (fresh off of the EP, hair whittling edge) and then ran it across a Norton stone of his - effectively ruining the edge I had just spent my time to make. He has no clue how to free hand, so why would he do something like that?

Needless to say, I don't sharpen his knives anymore.
 
Eh, and that's why I don't mind so much if I sharpen on the belt. The bevels aren't quite as mathematically perfect, and the polish is not as high, but I can do a complete re-work of a beat-up, chipped-up edge in less than five minutes to a point that is ALMOST as sharp as a good EdgePro job. It's far, far sharper than most anyone but us OCD knife folks have ever used, so it tends to make people extremely happy.

I had one fellow that I sharpen for down at the sporting goods place bring in a new Gerber that had an absolutely AWFUL factory edge on it, wouldn't even TRY to cut paper. Took a couple swipes on the 120 grit to even raise a burr, then I sharpened it up until it would shave armhair and slice paper cleanly and smoothly, and gave it back. Next week, he was back in. Edge was all chipped up, and it was missing about an eighth inch of the tip. He apparently had gotten kinda hammered with his buddy, and they decided to try THROWING it at a tree. Missed, of course, and landed it in a heap of rocks. I told him next time he gets to re-grind the bevel on the sidewalk outside. :D
 
Thanks Kom and Crimson, the info is very nice, and the video helps a lot! I am convinced about those chosera stones, and just need to figure out which ones I am gonna get. Still considering the diamond stones from CKTG for the lower grits...or maybe the atoma as Kom suggested.
 
mauidogg said:
Thanks Kom and Crimson, the info is very nice, and the video helps a lot! I am convinced about those chosera stones, and just need to figure out which ones I am gonna get. Still considering the diamond stones from CKTG for the lower grits...or maybe the atoma as Kom suggested.
Click to expand...

I would get diamonds for the low grits, then get the 1k and 10k Chosera stones.

I did a little experiment tonight. I can do a knife completely with 3 stones. The 400, 1000, and 10000 chosera. Results were exactly the same as they are when I do the full progression.

Needless to say, when my stones are worn out I will only be buying those grits.
 
Thanks so much for all the info guys. I have received nothing but good info from here.

Anyway. I ordered the kit from CKTG and it got here really fast, 4 days! I also got scales from HalpernTitanium for my M390 mule, and a sheath from Glockcrazz. every single thing I ordered came quick. (usually not the case getting anything to Hawaii.

I have already sharpened a few knives with the EP including my m390 mule. I am so glad I got the chosera stones, it is so much quicker on all my knives. CKTG also changed up their kit a little for the "APEX5" it now comes with 5 chosera stones and a 125micron diamond plate. The diamond plate made quick work of reprofiling my old bucklite. But man even with diamond plate and the chosera stones it takes quite a while to do the M390. I am guessing thats the difference in the steel properties.

So in short, I will be getting another diamond stone (coarser for heavier reprofiling), and most likely something inbetween the 125 micron diamond plate and the 400 chosera. The inbetween to help smooth out some of the scratches from the diamond plate. Also I finally will be investing in a strop, likely from CKTG as well since they have been so quick about getting my stuff here.
 
That's pretty cool, I didn't know they'd upgraded! Congrats on the EP, incidentally, welcome to the world of absurdly-sharp blades!

I learned a bit more about the diamond plates as well. They're made by Ken Schwartz, the fellow that does the ultra-fine-grit sprays and stropping stuff. They're a brand-new thing, and so far they look like they are REALLY coming out positively. The M390 is tough stuff, which accounts for the time it took to grind an edge on it with the diamonds.

Check out the "Ken's Corner" section under "Suppliers" for more of his stuff, he's a stand-up guy and sells GOOD hardware.
 
Komitadjie said:
That's pretty cool, I didn't know they'd upgraded! Congrats on the EP, incidentally, welcome to the world of absurdly-sharp blades!

I learned a bit more about the diamond plates as well. They're made by Ken Schwartz, the fellow that does the ultra-fine-grit sprays and stropping stuff. They're a brand-new thing, and so far they look like they are REALLY coming out positively. The M390 is tough stuff, which accounts for the time it took to grind an edge on it with the diamonds.

Check out the "Ken's Corner" section under "Suppliers" for more of his stuff, he's a stand-up guy and sells GOOD hardware.
Click to expand...

thanks for the welcome!

I have been able to get arm hair shaving sharp and paper slicing sharp freehanding, but I had a feeling I would need help with the M390 when I bought it. Plus I wanted to take advantage of the abilities of the new steels available. I must say I feel like I could do alot better with the EP but I know it takes time to get really good at it. So I did a sharpness test yesterday with a few select knives.

Buck omni hunter (free hand) = paper slicing, pass; tissue paper, fail.
Buck lite (EP) = paper slicing, pass; tissue paper, fail.
M390 mule team = paper slice, pass; tissue paper, pass!

I use tissue paper (kleenex) cus my house has cheap TP. The cut was very clean except for 2 tiny "hairs" that stuck out from the tissue, I am guessing very small inconsistency in my edge. I say very small since I can't seem to see it with the jewelers loupe. I may post pictures when I finally get a nice even mirror polish on it.
 
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