Diamonds No Good For Steel?

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by ejames13, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. adamlau


    Oct 13, 2002
    The thing is that Ben of EP is an honest fellow. And what he says is bond. So if he says that diamonds are not compatible with any steel...Well then, diamonds are assuredly not compatible with any steel. Period. Ben said so, therefore it must be!
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  2. adamlau


    Oct 13, 2002
    ^ This guy is nuts. Don't listen to him!
    DeadboxHero likes this.
  3. DeadboxHero

    DeadboxHero Triple B Handmade, Custom Knives Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Mar 22, 2014
  4. ToddS

    ToddS Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 15, 2015
    Wicked Edge claims the diamond plates are good for 500 knives which would correspond to 250 with the Edge Pro (since one plate does both sides of the blade).
    20 cents per sharpening seems quite reasonable to me.

    It's not been my experience that diamond plates wear by diamonds pulling out. The diamonds that are well bonded (half below the nickel surface) slowly break down with use (and expose new sharp points). The diamonds that are loosely bonded are lost during break-in.
  5. maximus83


    Nov 7, 2011
    ^This. Exactly. I'm not a "pro sharpener" but this has been my experience with quality diamond plates as well (I've had a few NON-quality ones, they are not part of this discussion :) ). They cut steel of all types just fine. They wear with use. But they wear slowly compared to other stone types. As expected.
  6. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2017
    With a properly plated diamond stone using metal bond diamond crystals, which are the preferred type for this type of use, the diamond does not break down exposing new edges, it will sheer off at the bond line and be gone. With a less than perfect bond the diamond crystals will pull out. It is insanely hard to bond a metal to a diamond crystal, you have to use a reactive metal alloy in a minimum torr 10-4 vacuum chamber. When done right you can have a 25% bond line, 75% of the diamond crystal is fully exposed with no bond on it, and the diamond crystal will not pull out. With a properly plated diamond plate there is no bond taking some, or most, of the load when using it, all the bond is well below the abrasives. When you are grinding on a .01" wide bevel it would be very easy to overload the diamond crystals on such a small contact area. I think it is this, poor quality diamond, and inferior bonds that are what lead some people say diamonds are no good for sharpening steel knives, it has nothing to do with diamond itself.
    FortyTwoBlades and maximus83 like this.
  7. Getting older

    Getting older

    Jan 3, 2016
    I think that sometimes we forget that anybody can put a idea on youtube about anything.The catch is you/we have no way of knowing how much,if experience that poster has in regard to that particular video.
  8. on_the_edge

    on_the_edge Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 31, 2006
    Plus the woman in the background never shook her head "no", but nodded "yes" multiple times. Not only does he know of what he speaks, but she can vouch for him. C'mon people, open your eyes and let the light in!!! ;)
    Hytekrednek likes this.
  9. PoorUserName


    Aug 28, 2017
    I see a huge study funded by DMT proving this wrong. :rolleyes:
  10. maximus83


    Nov 7, 2011
    Burden of proof is not on DMT. Burden of proof is on the guy making this absurd claim to back it up with some actual evidence.
    FortyTwoBlades likes this.
  11. Diemaker

    Diemaker KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 28, 2017
    Backing Ben up on this would be real easy and I would be happy to do it. Send me whatever you want to test and I can strip the diamonds right off. I have a microscope with a USB camera to take before and after photos to prove it.
    annr likes this.
  12. maximus83


    Nov 7, 2011
    Sure, do the tests for everyone's benefit though. DMT plates, multiple knives in different steels, photos. Atoma too. Show how many knives you sharpened before the plates break down and diamonds are torn out and stop working. And publish the results. Lacking that level of evidence--I don't believe his claims.

    I can't believe we're even entertaining this discussion in the maintenance forum. It would be like doctors debating whether antibiotics work. Do diamonds tear out sometimes under certain conditions? Yep. Seen it myself. But that's a far cry from proving diamonds shouldn't be used to sharpen any steel because of the tear-out issue. And proving that all the companies selling diamond abrasives believe this, and are lying about it regardless. That is an EXTRAORDINARY claim, IMHO.

    Sorry, I can't spare my expensive diamond plates--which work great on all kinds of steels--to run your tests. :)
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  13. PoorUserName


    Aug 28, 2017
    You can get smaller DMT sharpeners quite cheap you don't need to buy an expensive 8" or 10"

    I remember reading Amazon reviews at least one complaint that the DMT sharpner`s were wearing out quickly, hopefully they were not using it to level whet/oil stones.
  14. Kentucky


    Dec 13, 2008
    Really don't have a dog on this tree but since Ive used DMT plates for some time I should share my exp. If you don't use them right Im sure that you can f.u.b.a.r them.. Try to grind on them like apiece of 60 grit and it'll likely happen...
    That said Ive never had a problem with mine and sharpened everything from 1065 and aeb-l, to s35vn at 61rc, 3V at 62rc and zdp-189 at 64rc with no problems.
    maximus83 likes this.
  15. wvdavidr


    Mar 21, 2007
    Has anybody experimented with diamond plates mounted for use on the Edge Pro? Maybe the leverage may cause the diamonds to rip out vs. the easier pressure of the Wicked Edge or DMT Aligner. Does anybody have recommendations on diamond plates to buy for the Edge Pro (not to test... to use carefully)?
  16. FortyTwoBlades

    FortyTwoBlades Baryonyx walkeri Dealer / Materials Provider

    Mar 8, 2008
    The key with diamond stones is pressure management. Excessive pressure strips the diamonds from the metal, but pressure below that threshold prevents that issue. There are many individuals who have used diamond stones for many years of frequent use without issue, although the wear to the diamonds themselves means the aggression of their cut and the finish they produce changes over time as a result.
    maximus83 likes this.
  17. HeavyHanded


    Jun 4, 2010
    A last thought on this, while I believe diamond wearing out rapidly is mostly a user error issue, I still do not use them unless the steel calls for it.

    I don't much like how they work on carbon steels, lower carbide content steels and especially on budget steels they don't cut as clean as many "conventional" options.
  18. jalapeno


    Jan 16, 2017
  19. MyLegsAreOk


    Aug 31, 2017
    I don't think everyone on Amazon is learned on sharpening and wouldn't know that diamond stones loose their extreme coarseness faily soon after a few uses. CBN too.
    PoorUserName likes this.
  20. HeavyHanded


    Jun 4, 2010
    Diamond lapping films are a nice way to finish high Vanadium steels. I use with a hint of mineral oil to prevent loading and a single sheet can go a long time if you don't ask too much of it.
    I like the 3mil polyester.
    Chris "Anagarika" likes this.

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