Diamonds No Good For Steel?

The thing is that Ben of EP is an honest fellow. And what he says is bond. So if he says that diamonds are not compatible with any steel...Well then, diamonds are assuredly not compatible with any steel. Period. Ben said so, therefore it must be!
 
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Wicked Edge claims the diamond plates are good for 500 knives which would correspond to 250 with the Edge Pro (since one plate does both sides of the blade).
20 cents per sharpening seems quite reasonable to me.

It's not been my experience that diamond plates wear by diamonds pulling out. The diamonds that are well bonded (half below the nickel surface) slowly break down with use (and expose new sharp points). The diamonds that are loosely bonded are lost during break-in.
 
ToddS said:
It's not been my experience that diamond plates wear by diamonds pulling out. The diamonds that are well bonded (half below the nickel surface) slowly break down with use (and expose new sharp points). The diamonds that are loosely bonded are lost during break-in.
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^This. Exactly. I'm not a "pro sharpener" but this has been my experience with quality diamond plates as well (I've had a few NON-quality ones, they are not part of this discussion :-) ). They cut steel of all types just fine. They wear with use. But they wear slowly compared to other stone types. As expected.
 
With a properly plated diamond stone using metal bond diamond crystals, which are the preferred type for this type of use, the diamond does not break down exposing new edges, it will sheer off at the bond line and be gone. With a less than perfect bond the diamond crystals will pull out. It is insanely hard to bond a metal to a diamond crystal, you have to use a reactive metal alloy in a minimum torr 10-4 vacuum chamber. When done right you can have a 25% bond line, 75% of the diamond crystal is fully exposed with no bond on it, and the diamond crystal will not pull out. With a properly plated diamond plate there is no bond taking some, or most, of the load when using it, all the bond is well below the abrasives. When you are grinding on a .01" wide bevel it would be very easy to overload the diamond crystals on such a small contact area. I think it is this, poor quality diamond, and inferior bonds that are what lead some people say diamonds are no good for sharpening steel knives, it has nothing to do with diamond itself.
 
adamlau said:
The thing is that Ben of EP is an honest fellow. And what he says is bond. So if he says that diamonds are not compatible with any steel...Well then, diamonds are assuredly not compatible with any steel. Period. Ben said so, therefore it must be!
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Plus the woman in the background never shook her head "no", but nodded "yes" multiple times. Not only does he know of what he speaks, but she can vouch for him. C'mon people, open your eyes and let the light in!!! ;)
 
maximus83 said:
Burden of proof is not on DMT. Burden of proof is on the guy making this absurd claim to back it up with some actual evidence.
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Backing Ben up on this would be real easy and I would be happy to do it. Send me whatever you want to test and I can strip the diamonds right off. I have a microscope with a USB camera to take before and after photos to prove it.
 
Diemaker said:
Backing Ben up on this would be real easy and I would be happy to do it. Send me whatever you want to test and I can strip the diamonds right off. I have a microscope with a USB camera to take before and after photos to prove it.
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Sure, do the tests for everyone's benefit though. DMT plates, multiple knives in different steels, photos. Atoma too. Show how many knives you sharpened before the plates break down and diamonds are torn out and stop working. And publish the results. Lacking that level of evidence--I don't believe his claims.

I can't believe we're even entertaining this discussion in the maintenance forum. It would be like doctors debating whether antibiotics work. Do diamonds tear out sometimes under certain conditions? Yep. Seen it myself. But that's a far cry from proving diamonds shouldn't be used to sharpen any steel because of the tear-out issue. And proving that all the companies selling diamond abrasives believe this, and are lying about it regardless. That is an EXTRAORDINARY claim, IMHO.

Sorry, I can't spare my expensive diamond plates--which work great on all kinds of steels--to run your tests. :)
 
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You can get smaller DMT sharpeners quite cheap you don't need to buy an expensive 8" or 10"

I remember reading Amazon reviews at least one complaint that the DMT sharpner`s were wearing out quickly, hopefully they were not using it to level whet/oil stones.
 
Really don't have a dog on this tree but since Ive used DMT plates for some time I should share my exp. If you don't use them right Im sure that you can f.u.b.a.r them.. Try to grind on them like apiece of 60 grit and it'll likely happen...
That said Ive never had a problem with mine and sharpened everything from 1065 and aeb-l, to s35vn at 61rc, 3V at 62rc and zdp-189 at 64rc with no problems.
 
Has anybody experimented with diamond plates mounted for use on the Edge Pro? Maybe the leverage may cause the diamonds to rip out vs. the easier pressure of the Wicked Edge or DMT Aligner. Does anybody have recommendations on diamond plates to buy for the Edge Pro (not to test... to use carefully)?
 
The key with diamond stones is pressure management. Excessive pressure strips the diamonds from the metal, but pressure below that threshold prevents that issue. There are many individuals who have used diamond stones for many years of frequent use without issue, although the wear to the diamonds themselves means the aggression of their cut and the finish they produce changes over time as a result.
 
A last thought on this, while I believe diamond wearing out rapidly is mostly a user error issue, I still do not use them unless the steel calls for it.


I don't much like how they work on carbon steels, lower carbide content steels and especially on budget steels they don't cut as clean as many "conventional" options.
 
PoorUserName said:
You can get smaller DMT sharpeners quite cheap you don't need to buy an expensive 8" or 10"

I remember reading Amazon reviews at least one complaint that the DMT sharpner`s were wearing out quickly, hopefully they were not using it to level whet/oil stones.
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I don't think everyone on Amazon is learned on sharpening and wouldn't know that diamond stones loose their extreme coarseness faily soon after a few uses. CBN too.
 
jalapeno said:
What do you guys make of diamond abrasives in PSA sheet form, such as these from 3M: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...ng-Film-Roll-675L?N=5002385+3293082562&rt=rud
I'm not sure how the diamonds are bonded in this case.

3M sure has a lot of interesting abrasive products.
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Diamond lapping films are a nice way to finish high Vanadium steels. I use with a hint of mineral oil to prevent loading and a single sheet can go a long time if you don't ask too much of it.
I like the 3mil polyester.
 
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