Did Camillus make this Remington Trapper?

orca8589

orca8589

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I recently got this knife, and I've heard that it was possibly made by a company called Bowen in the 1970's, or made by Camillus for Bowen. I've seen others like it with blade etches, but you can see from the pics that there aren't any etches on this one, and it doesn't appear that there ever were. I think the scales are Delrin; they're definitely synthetic.

So, what do you folks think?

Bottom knife, shown with a Camillus-made #1306:



Blades, note the lack of an etch:


Thanks for any input you guys can provide.

~Chris
 
I cannot tell you who made the knife but I can tell you both knives are looking great!!
 
I think both are made ​​by Camillus. R1123 knife made by pattern #5754.
When there will be Tom and Phil, they will be able to tell more about it.
 
Are the tang square ends flush with bolster ends when closed?
Is the reverse of the Spey blade stamped "Authorized Reproduction"?

If yes, then it is a Camillus made knife from the 70's.
 
Thanks everyone - Phil, it's as you described. A couple of other questions, if I may: do you know what the blade steel is? (440A maybe?) And was Bowen the only one Camillus made this pattern for? Seems I've only seen Bowen knives with blade etches. This one was never etched from what I can tell.

Thanks for the info. :thumbup:

~Chris
 
Chris,

I do not believe that (or any other) knife was made by Camillus for Bowen.
Bowen produced their own knives.

I seem to recall that Blackie Collins was involved in the Remington Authorized Reproduction R1123.
 
Phil - I'm confused by your posts #'s 4 & 6 above - Here's more pics that may help.











~Chris
 
Sorry Chris!
What is the confusion?
The knife WAS made by Camillus.
What does Bowen have to do with this?
 
Sorry, I should have clarified in the OP. (It was late and I was tired.) Somewhere in the last several years here I saw a reference to Bowen knives being contracted out to other mfrs.; I see a reference in Bernard Levine's Guide to Knives and their Values that Camillus made knives for Collins Brothers, which later became Bowen in 1973.

From LG4:
Collins Bros. (Walter, Michael) - made by Camillus - Atlanta GA USA - Ltd. Editions -- c1970-1973
- sold to become Bowen Knife Co. 1973

Bowen Knife Co. - Bullet; was Collins Bros. - - Atlanta, Waycross GA USA - Mfr. -- 1973-pres.

I've seen references to the Bowen Remington R1123's (like mine) being made around 1977, and references to the same knife being a limited edition from before that time, I assume by Collins. Since the tang stamp looked so similar to the Camillus-made Remingtons, that was why I wondered who the maker was. Camillus made knives for Collins before 1973, but the later Bowen pattern knives were made by Alcas, Boker, and Queen, and maybe others? Also, I've seen at least one Bowen/Remington #R1123 with "BOWEN" etched on the main blade, but I can't find that pic any more. My knife doesn't have that etch.

Funny that this BF thread from 2010 didn't pop up in my original searches:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/777344-History-of-Bowen-Knife-Co

Hopefully this clarifies where my question came from. I've got so much on my mind right now I can barely get anything done around here, much less try to have a coherent on-line conversation. ;)

~Chris
 
Clearly you are correct then Chris!

I did not join Camillus until 1979.
The records I saw regarding the "Authorized Reproduction" Remington R1123 referenced Blackie Collins.

I had forgotten that Collins became Bowen. :o

To my knowledge that is the only knife Camillus ever did for them.

Interestingly enough all the same parts were used on the 1982 Remington R1123 (with the blade pivot holes pulled back just enough to avoid the "flush tang" feature; one of the most demanding cutlery hafting operations I have ever seen!)

Even with that, the 1982 knife seems to demand 5 - 10 X the price of the "Authorized Reproduction". :confused:
 
Hmmm, learn something new every day. Walter Collins = "Blackie" Collins . . . I'd never made that connection before. I always associated Blackie Collins with tactical-type knives, assisted openers, and the little Gerber LST, which is still one of my favorites.

Phil Gibbs said:
Interestingly enough all the same parts were used on the 1982 Remington R1123 (with the blade pivot holes pulled back just enough to avoid the "flush tang" feature; one of the most demanding cutlery hafting operations I have ever seen!)
Click to expand...

Why did Camillus want to avoid the flush-tang feature? Copyright issues? Ease of manufacturing?

Phil Gibbs said:
Even with that, the 1982 knife seems to demand 5 - 10 X the price of the "Authorized Reproduction". :confused:
Click to expand...

I know. This old Bowen sure is nice; I've got a couple of Schrade Fire & Ice Trappers made by GEC:


I love the overall quality of them, but the Bowen just seems to have so much more character. And the backsprings sit back just a fraction of an inch, not fully flush with the blade tang & bolster ends:


Even with being made by GEC, these two are at something like 1/2-to-2/3 the cost of a regular GEC 23 & 73. Go figure. As for the Remington #R1123 repros, I keep waiting for a 1982-Camillus made version to come up at a decent price. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

~Chris
 
Last edited:
orca8589 said:
Why did Camillus want to avoid the flush-tang feature? Copyright issues? Ease of manufacturing?
Click to expand...

Only 1 or 2 Hafters left that could do it!
And it took longer than sanding all the other sides of the knife combined!!!
It is the Rubric's Cube of sanding a knife.
You can ruin the entire knife if you take off 0.005" too much!
 
And here we all thought you just walked around between naps, waved a magic wand, and the parts just jumped up and assembled themselves. The reality is so much more . . . real. :o ;)

Okay, if I may request, is there a tutorial (write-up, pics, video?) on how Camillus assembled their regular traditional knives?

~Chris
 
Great knife! :thumbup:

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In the case too!!!
I have never seen the case!
Where do you find your knives Vitaly??????
 
I found it on eBay, but do not tell anyone about it. It's classified information :D

Special thanks to Tom Williams.
 
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