Did i have BINB deal??

[duduto007]

Hello Guys,,

I never thought i would have to make this post. Since we cant resolve this problem outside the forum, I have to make this post to ask some advice, suggestion from other members.

Recently I bought 2 NIB deal para 20cp from Cpf and BF member. I know is rarely the condition of NIB deal is really NIB if you bought second hand, but I guess you have some perimeter to judge if it’s okay as NIB deal.

The Cpf deal went fine, you can search recent 20cp sale on there. But I have problem with Bf deal. The condition is clearly not NIB from what I inspected. The handle looks dirty and has lot of scuffs on the pocket clip side. I can’t really judge about the blade condition.

I emailed the seller, and told that im not happy with the purchase, asking for full refund or partial refund. He rejected the partial refund request. He said, he sent the knife unused, and can’t controlled of what happen during the shipment.

And if I want to return the knife, he must inspected the knife first, and maybe there is import tax that I must pay. I think its not good idea for me, and I believe the seller wont accepted the condition of the knife, so I guess it just useless if sending it back and lose more money. Im still thinking I have rights to have full refund whatever the condition is.

I know the risk of International shipping. But from couple years I’m importing stuff from US, never have any lost shipping problem, even with some scary negative feedback ebay seller, and never the custom messing my stuff.

I think its not in the shipping process, because it well packed by USPS on the original box, cover with bubble wrap, and thick cardbox. But the condition is very odd if you want to blame the custom or postman guy. The handle has so many scuffs that appears mostly on the clip side. It appears from the bottom up to stop pin area, also appears on the handle beneath the pocket clip.

If this happen because they miss handling the knife, I guess the pocket clip will have scratches too, but its not. It just ridiculous if the custom guy, wear it on pocket and start rubbing it back and forth many times until it get scuffs like that.

Right now I don’t know what to do about this condition, Ill include the photos and some comparing photos with the Cpf one. Its hard to capture the pictures with pocket cam, but it looks worst in the real one. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Thank you

Adhitiya

[video=youtube;NT1Ml6onGeo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT1Ml6onGeo[/video]

 

[wolfmann601]

Knife looks unused and uncarried to me.

Again, It is not a deal until both parties are happy and if you expected a dead mint spyderco and did not get what was expected you should be unable to unring the deal bell.
But Spyderco knives are users not safe queens and the BF knife looks like a new Spyderco EDC user to me...........................YMMV of course

 

[jill jackson]

Is it oil on the handle? It almost looks like something was over-sprayed. Try to clean it off? The rest of the knife looks new to me.
It's even possible it left the factory like that. Doesn't happen often, but Spydercos do sometimes have cosmetic flaws. I've seen green G-10 show some irregularities before.

 

[jbmonkey]

does look like it was handled with not super clean hands, and that grey g-10 does show dirt easily. i handled(meaning....held in hand opened and closed, not used to cut anything) mine couple of times and had a similar result. the clip part i can't tell from the pics? sorry.

if you bought it here, and you aren't happy, seems the seller has no real choice but to follow the rules...assuming what you don't like about the knife was there before he sold it to you?

you could always sell it yourself and explain the minor issues and likely recoup most of your money unless you overpaid? just a thought......good luck hope it works out for both of you.

 

[Mountain Wildman]

I'm not an expert but it looks to me as though it has been handled and the handle is a little dirty, Although it may not have been used, I would have listed it as Like New, Handled a little.
BNIB to me means: Bought it, Received it, Looked at it once or twice and that's it. Looks like the previous owner or owners handled it with dirty hands. But again, I'm no expert. Every knife I buy, I buy with the intention of using it.

 

[duduto007]

Is it oil on the handle? It almost looks like something was over-sprayed. Try to clean it off? The rest of the knife looks new to me.
It's even possible it left the factory like that. Doesn't happen often, but Spydercos do sometimes have cosmetic flaws. I've seen green G-10 show some irregularities before.

I dont think its oil. i tried to clean it with flitz spray cleaner in small area, the scuff still there. I think its the fibre from g10 that makes shinny apparent.

The reason why im not happy with the purchased, because he stated this on email, "BNIB. Seriously, this was a backup that was only opened once (out of plastic) for photos. Perfect condition". I think i deserved better condition than this, because i paid the inflated NIB price. And dont worry i use my knives.

I'm not an expert but it looks to me as though it has been handled and the handle is a little dirty, Although it may not have been used, I would have listed it as Like New, Handled a little.
BNIB to me means: Bought it, Received it, Looked at it once or twice and that's it. Looks like the previous owner or owners handled it with dirty hands. But again, I'm no expert. Every knife I buy, I buy with the intention of using it.

Yes, im reffering to Mr. RevDevil blog about the condition, and i dont think its NIB.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/entry.php/90-How-To-Trade-Knives-and-Gear-Successfully

 

[Darkfin]

Without a dead mint one next to it, and without macro photography, it might look nib to a more casual observer than you. I have come to realize that some knife buyers have a far more critical eye than I, and better vision, or a big magnifying glass. I have sold Spyderco knives that were literally nib that I purchased directly from NGK and never even opened to look at, and had the buyer complain about things like centering, lockup, blade grind, scale marks, etc. To me, when it comes down to a person having a more critical eye than me, I will be glad to refund, but he needs to pay for all shipping. If, on the other hand, i sell an older knife as like new or mint, and the buyer points out usage flaws I missed that could not have come from the factory, i would consider refunding a few dollars to balance the condition.

While i agree with the general sentiment that "it's not a deal until everyone is happy", I believe that the person who wants to undo the deal should foot the round trip shipping bill, leaving the seller whole. (This does not apply in cases of obvious fraud (e.g. Listed as nib but shows rust, sharpening scratches, missing screws, damaged clip, etc).)

NIB and LNIB do not mean "dead mint" and rarely mean "untouched".

 

[u812]

If it went half way around the world there is no telling who handled it in shipping.
It does look to be new except being dirty.I would try washing it.

 

[u812]

On cleaning it try hot water,toothbrush and something like Dawn.

 

[jill jackson]

Without a dead mint one next to it, and without macro photography, it might look nib to a more casual observer than you. I have come to realize that some knife buyers have a far more critical eye than I, and better vision, or a big magnifying glass. I have sold Spyderco knives that were literally nib that I purchased directly from NGK and never even opened to look at, and had the buyer complain about things like centering, lockup, blade grind, scale marks, etc. To me, when it comes down to a person having a more critical eye than me, I will be glad to refund, but he needs to pay for all shipping. If, on the other hand, i sell an older knife as like new or mint, and the buyer points out usage flaws I missed that could not have come from the factory, i would consider refunding a few dollars to balance the condition.

While i agree with the general sentiment that "it's not a deal until everyone is happy", I believe that the person who wants to undo the deal should foot the round trip shipping bill, leaving the seller whole. (This does not apply in cases of obvious fraud (e.g. Listed as nib but shows rust, sharpening scratches, missing screws, damaged clip, etc).)

NIB and LNIB do not mean "dead mint" and rarely mean "untouched".

Exactly, I have had buyers leave me neutral feedback twice on eBay, over BNIB Spydercos. Just because they wanted to nitpick something wasn't exactly as perfect as they thought it should be.

 

[Steven65]

Right now I don’t know what to do about this condition, Ill include the photos and some comparing photos with the Cpf one. Its hard to capture the pictures with pocket cam, but it looks worst in the real one. Please take a look and let me know what you think.

Hi, I have purchased many knives from BF members over the past years so I have some experience with the problems of International shipping.

I have a few questions.......

Which country in South East Asia are you located?

You make mention of Customs and Import Tax. Was the knife inspected and the package opened by your customs?

The blade and pocket clip appear new and unused. In your video the knife seems to function flawlessly and the blade seems perfect with good lock up.
What exactly are your issues with the knife? Please describe them clearly and in detail.

Thanks
Steven

 

[jeepin]

Hi, I have purchased many knives from BF members over the past years so I have some experience with the problems of International shipping.

I have a few questions.......

Which country in South East Asia are you located?

You make mention of Customs and Import Tax. Was the knife inspected and the package opened by your customs?

The blade and pocket clip appear new and unused. In your video the knife seems to function flawlessly and the blade seems perfect with good lock up.
What exactly are your issues with the knife? Please describe them clearly and in detail.

Thanks
Steven

If you will read his ad again it says he has issues with the handles and pocket clip

 

[Steven65]

If you will read his ad again it says he has issues with the handles and pocket clip

Actually what it says is.........

The Cpf deal went fine, you can search recent 20cp sale on there. But I have problem with Bf deal. The condition is clearly not NIB from what I inspected. The handle looks dirty and has lot of scuffs on the pocket clip side. I can’t really judge about the blade condition.

If you reread it you will notice that he says nothing about the pocket clip. He says, "looks dirty and has lot of scuffs on the pocket clip side."

Hardly a succinct and clear description of his problem with the knife.........

 

[SVRIDER1]

Looks unused and uncarried, but it looks like it was handled. Still bnib as far as I would be concerned. In a store I will handle different ones until I am satisfied before purchasing.

 

[jeepin]

Actually what it says is.........



If you reread it you will notice that he says nothing about the pocket clip. He says, "looks dirty and has lot of scuffs on the pocket clip side."

Hardly a succinct and clear description of his problem with the knife.........

Your right. On the pocket clip side not the clip itself.

 

[duduto007]

Hi, I have purchased many knives from BF members over the past years so I have some experience with the problems of International shipping.

I have a few questions.......

Which country in South East Asia are you located?

You make mention of Customs and Import Tax. Was the knife inspected and the package opened by your customs?

The blade and pocket clip appear new and unused. In your video the knife seems to function flawlessly and the blade seems perfect with good lock up.
What exactly are your issues with the knife? Please describe them clearly and in detail.

Thanks
Steven

Hello Sir, im from Indonesia. Customs will open your package to get inspected.

The main issue is for dirty g10 handle and lots of scuffed on the g10 on the clip side. I cant show clear detail scuffed on the pictures, but it is worst than the picture.

What makes me not satisfied is, why i can get better condition with other knife with less price rather than this one when the seller state is as BNIB , perfect condition.

If we go blamming the customs, this will be the first time ever customs messing with my package. And it just odd, because the scuffed appear from the lanyard hole area up to stop pin area, and beneath the pocket clip. Looks like it had been some pocket times.

Im confused, is it okay to resolve overseas dealing problem with just blamming the shipping process?

 

[Steven65]

Im confused, is it okay to resolve overseas dealing problem with just blamming the shipping process?

Well I am not saying that......but the reality is that customs did open the package and so doubt is cast as to where the dirt/scuffing took place.

It is within the sellers right to ask for the item to be returned and inspected before issuing a refund. This is to ensure that the damage did not take place after it left his hands and the knife is returned in the same condition as it was shipped.

If the seller verifies that the knife was shipped in perfect condition without the scuffing then it becomes almost impossible to prove what happened.

I am sorry to hear your disappointment and I sympathize as International sales can be difficult and troublesome. However it is the price us Internationals pay for being able to participate here on BF.

 

[duduto007]

Just had conversation with my friend this morning. He accidentally saw this thread. He told me that he got similiar problem in the past, but he kept this silent. He thought it would be useless to fight for it.

He purchased custom knife from older member with lots of feedback. The member showed the knife picture in good condition, but my friend received in bad condition. Same excuse blamming the shipping process.

We both know its not true, i have 7 knives purchased so far from the best kershaw/ZT dealer in here with no problem, and my friend recently received his 2011 BF slipjoint in perfect condition.

Im learning good and expensive lesson from this thread, you cant always trust reputable member especially with overseas dealing. Blamming shipping process is just the easiest get away. I wont bother anymore right now, yeah i know i cant resell this again for $200, but like you guys said, i feel lucky now that he didnt send me empty box.

Thanks for all of your reply Guys.