Did I make a bad deal?

C

chickenrunner

Joined
Sep 29, 2004
Messages
66
I just bought this wakizashi - I paid equivalent to USD 130 for it. I'm far from being knowledgeable about Japanese edged weapons, but I like it. But I've never seen this kind of pattern welding on a Japanese blade before (not that I've seen many). Is it common or didn't the bladesmith finish it?

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I can't quite be sure, but from the last pic the blade almost looks like Damascus Steel. IF it is, you made a dang good deal! True Damascus is rare and expensive.
 
having some exposure to japanese swords it looks a lot like an etched Chinese fake. Because it is in shirasaya it should be easy to remove the wooden peg holding the tang in the handle. This way you can look at the tang. The tang is always a good indication to identify the true nature of a sword.
The point of the blade , called the kissaki, also looks wrong to me. There seems to be an absence of an active Hamon. The habaki, a very important part of the blade seems poorly finished and fitted.

Take a look at this website for more information

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/terms/terms.htm

http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/repro.htm
 
Thank you both. Mongo-man, after studying the links you gave me, I believe you're right. Well, I took a chance, and I can live with a loss of 130 dollars.
 
I don't think you made a made a bad deal, you got your money's worth easily, is it worth thousands? No, is it worth what you paid - Probably. There is a lot of work in her, apprecaite her for what she is and you can smile.
 
The patterns in the steel can be a good sign--that the blade is hand made and of folded steel. But the layer patterns in your sword look more like something I would see on an Indonesian keris than on a Japanese sword. So I would have some doubts. It looks to me like the blade and habaki have been refinished, and I agree with Mongo that the blade looks heavily etched. This would, of course remove any traces of the hamon, so it's absence is not surprising. My guess is that it was heavily corroded and was refinished by someone who didn't know Japanese blades. I'd have it examined by an expert before writing it off, though. Blades can be properly repolished if they are worth the effort. Hopefully the tang has not been "cleaned" as it can tell a lot about the blade, as Mongo indicated.

DD
 
i'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the sword is not japanese it is chinese and there are alot of them coming out of china now and finding there way in auctions, gun shows, flea markets,with signatures, perfect fitting habaki's, temperlines, wwII mounts, etc etc. japanese swordsmiths did not make damascus blades. do not confuse the hamon (grain) as being damascus. stay away immediately from a damascus japanese style blade....sorry to tell you this but it wasn't a too costly mistake. and we have all made them....i did read somewhere that one japanese swordsmith worked in damascus but you can only imagine how rare it would be to find an example of his work...if i can find that information again in one of my books i will post it for you....but for the time being, if you see a damascus japanese sword...run. if it makes you feel better, i've seen people pay hundreds of dollars for some of these blades.
 
Thank you all. You've all been most helpful. This forum is truly a treasure chest. One more item for the scrap box. But at least I haven't lost any sleep over it. But if I may be so bold. I have another wakizashi I bought at an auction for the equivalent of 250 dollars a long time ago. It's far better made than the Chinese one. I tried to take a picture of the point, but it didn't show up very well on the photo.

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Jihada (grain)
Hamon (temper line)

thanks djd....you're right of course.and i'm sorry about that error... my main concern was to stay away from the damascus blades and mostly it really bothers me about some of these chinese imports. my only suggestion if you are looking to buy a japanese sword is to know who you are dealing with, or if possible, ask if you can show the sword to someone you know if you are uncertain about it or just want another opinion, a reputable dealer will give you a moneyback guarentee, i know a lot of these things maybe asking too much, especially if you are shopping on ebay or something like it. but they are worth NOT buying the sword especially if you don't know. i've been to a japanese sword club meeting that people who should know, ask about a wwII mounted sword, that was a chinese fake, if it was for sale....the sword was there as an example to show it as the fake and to be aware of them...so they fool people that are in the know....unfortunately i am gun shy to buy anything nowadays without help or input from others. forget the wwII german daggers i used to collect. i went to a gun show and i couldn't believe what was being sold there. i'm not saying that they didn't have original items and honest sellers but what i am saying is what i saw of fake or parts daggers was really scary. same with civil war items. you would be surprized....my thing now is i just think of everything as being not what it is and then i see why it could be...does that make sense? just be careful out there you can get burned pretty good. i could scare you with stories of people spending thousands of dollars on japanese swords that have been ruined with acid trying to bring up the temperline....it takes away the fun for sure
 
spookie said:
same with civil war items. you would be surprized....
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Nothing surprises me any more.
I can only say that if one wishes to drop big bucks on a Japanese sword--or for that matter a Civil War bowie or any other valuable blade you must either:
1. Know what you are buying. Learn something about your area of interest before spending your money.
or ..
2. Get help from someone who does know. There are folks like Bernard Levine who offer an inexpensive service in which he can appraise the authenticity of an eBay listed item BEFORE you bid. And if he doesn't know himself, he knows who to ask. It would be money well spent if one is unsure.

Stepping up to the plate with a fat wallet when you know little or nothing about what you are buying makes you an easy target. A fool and his money are soon parted.

DD
 
Ed Fowler said:
I don't think you made a made a bad deal, you got your money's worth easily, is it worth thousands? No, is it worth what you paid - Probably. There is a lot of work in her, apprecaite her for what she is and you can smile.
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I remember an article on swordforums years ago by someone who actually toured one of these factories in China. They were making the pattern welded steel out of whatever scrap iron and mild steel they had. Nothing remotely heat treatable. On the one hand, sure, you can cut stuff with a blade made of mild steel. But I still wouldn't call the end product worth the effort, or my money.
 
I agree not a great knife, poor welds, and many places to criticise, but as a wall hanger not a bad deal. If you believe perfect fit and finish are qualities of a great knife, I suggest you try cutting with some of the more expensive stuff available now. Money wasted? Not of he is happy, and he could probably get most of it back should he decide to sell it. Simply compare it to other stuff that is sold for wall hangers and compre the value.
 
Ed Fowler said:
If you believe perfect fit and finish are qualities of a great knife, I suggest you try cutting with some of the more expensive stuff available now.
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Not sure if you were addressing me specifically, but to clarify I was not talking about fit & finish at all. I was talking about a long blade that is made from junk steel that can't even be hardened.
 
Midwest Ninja said:
Was there ever any feedback on the second sword posted? The kissaki at least looks better than the first.
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Only slightly. I can't tell how good the fit of the habaki is (still looks better than the first), nor how good the wrap is (though it looks somewhat even). The saya is interesting though.
 
The habaki seems to have a good fit. The wrap is quite tight - and to my untrained eye - even.
It doesn't show well in the picture (my camera sucks at close-up pictures), but this one actually has a kissaki.
The Sheath is made of wood covered with a laquered 1 mm thick skin-like material. The white spots looks a bit like fish scales.
 
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