Did my knife get sharper or duller?

if you sharpen with the wheel rotating to you, try this and see if it helps. work up a burr on the grit wheel at the angle you want to sharpen at. with the motor off, lay the blade on top of the slotted wheel with the burr up. move the blade back away from you into position as if you were going to remove the burr. watch the gap below the edge and when you see the edge make contact with the wheel, stop. that is the angle you want to hold the blade at. check the other side to make sure its the same. a good light above the wheels helps a lot so you can watch the shadow underneath the blade as you place it into sharpening or buffing position.
 
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richard j said:
if you sharpen with the wheel rotating to you, try this and see if it helps. work up a burr on the grit wheel at the angle you want to sharpen at. with the motor off, lay the blade on top of the slotted wheel with the burr up. move the blade back away from you into position as if you were going to remove the burr. watch the gap below the edge and when you see the edge make contact with the wheel, stop. that is the angle you want to hold the blade at. check the other side to make sure its the same. a good light above the wheels helps a lot so you can watch the shadow underneath the blade as you place it into sharpening or buffing position.
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Hmm, that's a tad confusing without pictures. I hold the knife with the wheel rotating towards me like in the picture shown in the manual.

In any case, I'm fairly certain the burr is completely gone, and I'm just looking at a tiny micro-bevel on the edge. I'll redo the edge and raise a burr on the EdgePro, as I'm not yet good enough to do so on the grit wheel without making my edge look fugly.

Hopefully I'll be able to do it properly this time around and get rid of the glint, but the pessimist in me thinks my edge is still going to be more or less the same given how small the micro-bevel is.
 
it would be much easier for me and faster to explain things on the phone to you. send me an email and i'll see if i can take some pictures to show you what i mean.
try it without a burr on the edge this time. lay the blade on top of the wheel just past the 12:00 position on the slotted wheel. have some good light set up so it will cast a slight shadow between the edge and wheel. as you rotate the wheel backward, watch the shadow under the blade slowly get narrower. where the edge makes contact, thats the angle you want to hold the blade at. make sure to keep it paralell to the floor and not angled up or down.
 
go to an big lots, family dollar or similar store and get a cheap set of the lowest power magnifying glasses and give them a try if you normally wear glasses.use them so you can see what you have ended up with. put a pair of safety goggles on over them if you use them to work up or remove a burr. to check for a burr now, use a sewing needle and see if it will catch as you slide it down to the edge. if you feel one just go higher. exactly what kind of knife are you sharpening? knowing that might help.
 
There's currently two knives I'm sharpening:
-Tojiro Flash Paring Knife, VG-10 steel at HRC 62.
-Spyderco Manix 2, CTS-XHP at HRC 60-62.

Despite having spent the better part of an hour redoing the edge, I am still left with a glint at the edge. It starts out being noticeable in the 600-1000 grit EdgePro stones because the stones are not the exact same width which causes the angles to jump around, and I don't think I did a very consistent job all around the edge.

Pressing slightly harder on the strop, the edge gave me a very deep impression of having micro "teeth", as it would sort of "grab" the paper a bit while push cutting. It also "grabs" my leg hairs and would pop them clean off rather than whittling it.

Functionally speaking there doesn't seem to be a significant difference between the two edges. It still feels exactly the same when peeling an orange. And thinking about what's involved in shaving, I suppose the diamond finished edge would be more preferable.
 
i think it might help if you practice with a cheap knife on the grit wheel and learn how to get a good even burr worked up. once you get good at working up a burr then go to the slotted wheel. once you get good at sharpening with both wheels i'm sure you'll have edges that look like mine.
 
Noctis3880 said:
as I'm not yet good enough to do so on the grit wheel without making my edge look fugly.
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Noctis,
You said it right here with this quote, in my opinion. Using the paper wheels is an excellent way to get a shaving sharp edge, but it is, after all a freehand method of sharpening and will take some practice and a desire to learn. When I got my first set I spent some time with some older carbon steel kitchen knives that I wasn't too concerned about just to get everything figured out. With experience and practice it's an amazingly effective system for getting your blades VERY sharp. One of the most important things that I've discovered is to make sure your contact point is at the front "peak" of the wheel. If you go higher or lower, your angle won't be correct even if you are holding the knife right.

Give it some time and patience and I think you'll be happy with the results, no diamond spray necessary:thumbup:
 
Thanks, I was also very happy with the results. Richard is the man with those paper wheels.
 
Noctis3880 said:
Despite having spent the better part of an hour redoing the edge, I am still left with a glint at the edge. It starts out being noticeable in the 600-1000 grit EdgePro stones because the stones are not the exact same width which causes the angles to jump around, and I don't think I did a very consistent job all around the edge.
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Until you reach the edge (and raise a burr), it's pointless to move to the finer stones on the EP, or to the polish wheel on the Sharpening Wheels. All your doing is polishing the bevel, you're not sharpening the knife.


Noctis3880 said:
Pressing slightly harder on the strop, the edge gave me a very deep impression of having micro "teeth", as it would sort of "grab" the paper a bit while push cutting. It also "grabs" my leg hairs and would pop them clean off rather than whittling it.
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Generally, hoining a knife on leather will improve whatever edge you have. But if the edge is not created and refined properly, you're not seeing the results of the hone, you're seeing the results of the edge that was created prior to the hone, that has just been cleaned up. Both are beneficial, but there's a big difference.

cbw
 
noctis, have you read the paper wheel thread? it might help if you do. there are a lot of guys who had problems and are now getting good results. you said you had a good edge with the wheels. you made the mistake of going to the strop to try and improve an already shaving sharp edge only to mess it up. get some cheap knives and practice with the wheels and dont worry about getting a shaving sharp edge on your good knives until you learn how to use them. once you do, you'll be glad you took the time to learn how to use them. i talked to a guy who has visioin loss in 1 eye and he loves the wheels since nothing else worked for him.
 
I don't strop or anything after using the wheels. I get d2 to whittle hair on the wheels. I remove material on the belt sander first, this is just to preserve the grit wheel a bit, then hit it on the grit wheel the with white rouge on the slotted wheel, and thats it. It is actually pretty easy once you get the angles and the movement down. Good luck and hope you get the result you are looking for.
 
To: Noctis 3880

Sir

Please become a "phone person" for maybe 15 to 30 minutes (maybe less time than it takes to do a post), contact Richard and he will help you master paper wheel sharpening.

He is very kind to work with and "knows" paper wheel sharpening - do it his way until you completely understand the process, his methods and only then go your way.

I, AM 78 YEARS OLD AND HAVE USED THE PAPER WHEEL SYSTEM FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS - do I do everything exactly like Richard does "NO" - but I did until I mastered what Richard teaches.

Become a phone person (talk with Richard) and you will never regret that call.

Rupert
Here in Louisiana
 
After some practice I believe my edges look reasonably well and wicked sharp.

I've attempted a sort of compromise by putting the diamond spray on the slotted wheel. The result was an edge that cut paper like a smooth piece of glass. Though it's a little hard to tell if the edge is any sharper than with the white rouge. I suppose it might come in handy if S110V or another blade with a high content of Niobium carbides becomes more widely available in the future.
 
all it takes is some practice to get good with the wheels. did you see my vid of a knife i made cutting free hanging newspaper? it has a half convex edge that i put on with my belt sander but finished off with the slotted wheel and white rouge. http://knifetests.com/kII.html
 
richard j said:
all it takes is some practice to get good with the wheels. did you see my vid of a knife i made cutting free hanging newspaper? it has a half convex edge that i put on with my belt sander but finished off with the slotted wheel and white rouge. http://knifetests.com/kII.html
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Ah yes, my knife does that as well.

So I guess that's more or less as sharp as I'm going to get short of having a knife with a solid diamond blade?
 
if you can do that with your knives, you pretty much have the hang of it. and just think, you did it without diamonds and just think of the hours you'll save to dull your knives back up :D. actually the sharpest knife is supposed to be obsidian or volcanic glass. i cant remember exactly how thin the edge is but they are super sharp and used in microsurgery.
 
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