Did the 'boy' doom the scout knife?

J

jackknife

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Oct 2, 2004
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I love the utility of a sak. There's no getting around it, having grown up with a scout knife and Mr. Van's mentoring, I put a high value on the utility of a knife with a screw driver and awl on it. I mean, when I was a kid in the boy scouts, I couldn't imagine carrying another knife but my "Official Boy Scout knife"as made by Camillus.

As I grew older, I got away from them for a while. My dad and uncles all carrying regular pocket knives, as did most of the members of the much esteemed liars circle. And to us boys, they were the final experts in all things knives, guns, hunting, and some things not mentioned around law abiding people.

I know that among those old time depression era men, a few tools were a valued thing. My own dad seemed to carry a miniature tool kit around on his keychain, and so did many others. The ever present Sears 4-way keychain screw driver, the P-38, the cheap little nail clipper that was a phillips driver, wire cutter, and jack of all trades were always there. But one thing I did not understand then and now, was how the boy scout knife was shunned by many as a , well, boy's knife.

I saw my dad and other men use the keychain screw driver, but when I mentioned carrying a scout knife, they kind of hemmed and hawed, and seemed to be embarrassed by the idea. I saw them use house keys and other things to pry off a beer cap, but they never would used a scout knife's bottle opener. In fact, the only adult male in my boyhood that ever carried a scout knife was Mr. Van. But then, I don't think Mr. Van ever worried what people thought. Even stray vicious dogs didn't push it with him. No really, he growled back at a dog that came out from between a couple houses, running at us with teeth bared, and Mr. Van gave a huge "GAAAAH!" that echoed off the houses, and the dog stopped dead in his tracks, then retreated a ways looking like he was trying to decide if he had pressing business elsewhere.

Growing up, I saw all kids of jackknives. There was tear drop jacks, equal end jacks, serpentine jacks, barlow's, peanuts, reverse peanuts, and easy openers. But I never saw an adult with a scout knife. If a man was in a trade where a screw driver was a good thing, then I saw a lot of the surplus TL-29's. The TL-29 seemed to have respect as a 'man's" knife.

Do you think the 'boy' in the name boy scout knife scared off some old timers?

Carl.
 
Don't know, but my problem with them is that every one I ever got my hands on as a kid were unadulterated total pieces of crap. I kinda imprinted on that and won't have one anywhere near me.
 
You may be right, Carl. I think about the esteem given to the Camillus made "Demo" knife, which is basically a scout knife with stainless slabs, and contrast it with the relative lack of enthusiasm over the boy-scout knife, and I can see your point.
 
I think there may be something to that. Not that it should be. Unfortunately, I do think there are a lot of 'cheap' knives out there in this pattern (which makes them look/seem like toys), and that might have something to do with why some don't take them seriously, as a "man's knife".

I used to have a Case 'scout' pattern knife with bone scales & bail (maybe '70s vintage), that I wasn't the least bit ashamed to carry. In fact, for a long time, I carried it quite a lot. It just felt good to carry & handle it. My dad had gotten it for me. Sad thing is, I think it was among a few of my knives that were stolen from my house back in the late '90s. I don't have it anymore, and that really bugs me. I'm sure it always will.
 
zerogee said:
Don't know, but my problem with them is that every one I ever got my hands on as a kid were unadulterated total pieces of crap. I kinda imprinted on that and won't have one anywhere near me.
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I think this could be the case, unfortunately. These knives might've been viewed as a kind of interim right of passage thing, you'd progress to better 'real' knives. Many were of poor quality, hence the scepticism or suspicion of elders. However, it's not all accurate by any means. Some very good ones were made in the past, and both Bulldog and Rough Rider make credible versions now. The various SAK interpretations of this theme are beyond doubt :thumbup: I like them and find them a fixture of my small work pack, can't say want to pocket one, a bit bulky but the tools and options these type of knives offer are self-evidently clever and practical. Saves having to carry a whole load of other bits&pieces around with you. They've got a fine and undeniable pedigree too when you consider the multi tool knives from Thiers France in the c19th (SAK forerunner) or the impressive Sportsman knives from Sheffield England, all these, SAKs and the other modern types have decent steel and real blades. In this case, the oldsters got it (mainly) wrong.
 
I actually feel that way about the Camillus camp knife I aquired a few months ago. I've only carried it a few times. It just always reminds me of a young boys knife, I don't know why. Now my Vic soldier.... well that's a different story. I absolutely love that knife.
 
When I traveled to Great Britain and Europe on 2007 my Camillus official Boy Scout knife was the only knife I packed. I used it to open a beer on the train and to open food wrappers while site seeing. It's probably still in the side pocket of my luggage, I'll have to go dig it out. I'll try to carry it for a while.
 
willgoy said:
I think this could be the case, unfortunately. These knives might've been viewed as a kind of interim right of passage thing, you'd progress to better 'real' knives. Many were of poor quality, hence the scepticism or suspicion of elders. However, it's not all accurate by any means. Some very good ones were made in the past....
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I certainly agree with that. I remember a lot of the old BS knives literally falling apart in the hands of young boys. Some no doubt to abuse, but some were just cheaply made, no doubt with the idea that the kiddo stood a pretty good change of breaking or losing it anyway.

I had a pretty good knife that was marked "PowerKraft" the old Montgomery Wards brand that I got around 1962. I used the heck out of that knife for several years until I had enough lawn mowing money to get another one. Even though I used it for all manner of tasks and kept it near as an indispensable tool for anything I was "working on" as a youth, I couldn't wait to get away from it. I wanted a big boy knife with bone or stag handles (not plastic), a clipped blade, and something that didn't look like a kid's knife.

I don't know who made that knife, but I still have it!

I never went through the SAK stage as it reminded me too much of my old Boy Scout model. (NO NEED TO DEFEND THESE KNIVES... I GET IT NOW!) I never saw a SAK until I was in my late teens, and they looked like a Euro version of my BS knife. Red plastic handles, chrome or stainless parts, stamped out of sheet metal. (NO NEED TO DEFEND THESE KNIVES... I GET IT NOW!)

SAKs are not the same as they were 35 years ago. Some were quite crude affairs. My benchmark was CASE or Boker. No other knives existed for me. Bone, stag, and even Delrin... not red plastic.

However, think how things change (or don't, depending on your point of view). The need for a good all purpose utility tool with a knife blade as a tool has never gone away, right? Look how fast the multitools took off. Leatherman tools became an instant success, as did many other versions of that type of tool. Set aside the pliers, and I don't think we were far away from the classic BS knife!

Look at the continued overwhelming success of the SAK lines. Talk about a traditional knife... I have run into folks that have been carrying their favorite (one of my buds has carried nothing but a Tinker for decades) SAK much longer than I have carried any one knife I own. And like the old BS knives used to be, they are enormously affordable.

I just wonder if all the multitools and plethora of SAKs models aren't just a continuation of the old BS knives many of us had in some way. You know, like an adult version of the Boy Scout knife without looking like a kid again. :D

I always enjoy a few of these thoughtful threads on traditional knives (what in the world could be much more traditional to many of us than the classic BS knife?) mixed in with the knives themselves.

Robert
 
That's a good question and one that I've wondered about. Back then they were carbon steel, so the current sometimes-complaint about the stainless steel not holding an edge long isn't valid. Maybe one reason is b/c they were typically heavier than the usual 3 - 3.5" Jack knife and Stockman.
 
I think all the ones I got hold of were stainless - the sort that absolutely cannot be made to take an edge. You'd have better luck cutting something with your index finger. The tools were flimsy as well, along with the whole package.
 
Most were crap. I guess mine might have been. It was a cheap, Imperial "KampKing". It did though, get me from 8-18 years of age. I loved it then and i love it now.

After reading Peter Hataway Capstick, i decided to revive my boyhood EDC. I bought a Victorinox "Tinker" to ride shotgun with my Buck 309 "Companion"

I am 57 now. I get the feeling that my co-workers think it's funny that i carry the Vic. Every damn one of them have come to me, when we don't have access to tools, wanting to know "Do you have your boyscout knife?" They all know i do and depend on it. I think they might be embarassed to carry a "Boys " knife.

It has worked out well for me and worked out well for Peter Hathaway Capstick. Peter vowed that he would rather go into the bush without his rifle, rather than without his Victorinox "Champion". regards Henry
 
My scout knife was an Ulster I believe , it was a great knife and got used a bit , as I grew older I learned of a neighborhood kid who was a scout and found out his parents couldn't afford to buy him things like a scout knife , or some basic camping gear.

I had moved on from scouts , so all my gear was gifted to him. In a way I wish I had kept it , but I know how much it meant to him , and I am pretty sure he passed it on to another needy scout.
 
I never had a scout knife (was never in the Scouts), but I remember seeing them in the back of "Boy's Life" along with the hollow handled survival "Rambo" knives. I always wanted one, but never bothered because I knew they were going to be low quality. If you look on the auction sites you'll find a ton of old "vintage" scout knives for cheap (less than $20). And then you'll find a few (AG Russell, Case, S&M, etc) that are far more expensive ($80+). Very little inbetween. That tells me that the old ones, at least the ones that kids would have, were pretty much all of low quality (with a few exceptions, such as Case). The new, high quality ones probably appeal to older guys who want a piece of their childhood back, or for them to give to their kids/grandkids, but don't want them to suffer with the cheap ones they had themselves back then.

The Victorinox Cybertool 29 I carry every day is essentially a modern camp/scout knife. Blades, screwdrivers, awl, corkscrew, etc.
 
I have a Boy Scout knife made by Remington in the 1930's which was carried by a great uncle. Stag/bone grips, nickel silver bolsters and liners. He used it lightly as it's still in great shape, but obviously carried it a lot.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
My scout knife was an Ulster I believe , it was a great knife and got used a bit , as I grew older I learned of a neighborhood kid who was a scout and found out his parents couldn't afford to buy him things like a scout knife , or some basic camping gear.

I had moved on from scouts , so all my gear was gifted to him. In a way I wish I had kept it , but I know how much it meant to him , and I am pretty sure he passed it on to another needy scout.
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That's a great story. I commend you sir.

- Christian
 
zerogee said:
I think all the ones I got hold of were stainless - the sort that absolutely cannot be made to take an edge. You'd have better luck cutting something with your index finger. The tools were flimsy as well, along with the whole package.
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I agree. When I was in the Boy Scouts I didn't have an "Official BSA" knife. It was a look-a-like I think I bought at a drug store for cheap.

The "bolsters" were sheet metal affairs clipped on the ends of the plastic scales. I don't remember liners, but there must have been something to hold the flimsey pin that held the impossible-to-get-sharp "blade."

Then main blade folded onto my index finger once under force, and only indented/bruised it while leaving a slight abrasion!

It was only good for games like stretch and mumbletypeg.

But in adult life I have always liked and gathered a small assortment of heavy-duty so-called "Boy Scout" style utility knives, along with "Electrician" patterns and a few SAK's.

My best one is a Ka-bar with really thick plates, liners, and back-spines of the blades/tools. excellent camp knife when combined with something like a Ka-bar "Ka-bar," for the larger camp chores. The awl is sharp and tough, and useful even! And the can opener works well too.

I thought I lost it once so ordered the same model number. When it came it was the same number, but quite a bit thinner in the width and components.:grumpy:

I don't have any negative associations with these patterns and have appreciated their utility, even as EDC for a period.
 
No idea?

I know my 1st "Scout Knife" was pretty shoddy & I preferred the Case or Shrade knives I had over it. Got my 1st decent SAK (Victorinox Spartan) when I was 10 from my Step-father. Shortly thereafter my tastes in knives changed & it was a long path back. Now I carry a SAK of some sort daily.

No real answer for you, but I know I am teaching my boys the value of a SAK. Told them both that when they earned their Whittling Chip in Scouts I would buy a SAK of their choice. Oldest picked a Vic Hiker & the youngest will start working on his Whittling Chip this summer.
 
I got an Imperial Cub Scout knife in the 60's. It was a poor quality knife. It left an impression on me.
 
JK and all,
The Mr.Van stories are scary they are so similar to mine.....Mr. Berryhill was the first man who I ever knew that was a "officer". He was a salesman in life, but in the green uniform he was a general. Things happened. And always for the boy and for right. God rest his soul.

Like most of the posts here, at some point my black plastic Imperial Kamp King was put aside for a more manly knife. I believe an Old Timer stockman.

AS we write, I still carry a. almost worn smooth Winchester stamped (1976) four point type screwdriver disc on my keychain.....sometimes with a tl-29 in my pocket.

My scout years hardware store hatchet was left at home as I journeyed on in my early twenties and I noticed it now and again on visits, that is until we went to clean out the house.....wish I would have found it.
300/ch
 
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