Did the 'boy' doom the scout knife?

I'll take odds with you regarding no place to clip an EDC while wearing a tux!

I received an old Scout knife many years ago when I earned my Tote-n-Chip. My dad bought it for me. I carried it for a few years until I found the quality and utility of a SAK. I don't know what happened to the old Scout knife, or the first couple SAKs, but this is the one that made it through my formative years:

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This knife has a permanent place in my luggage, as it goes everywhere I go. I don't find the occasions to use it like I used to, but it is still a constant travel companion.

As for EDC, I no longer carry a Scout/SAK/utility knife anymore. Instead, I always have this handy little rascal on my keychain which serves me well.

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I'll take odds with you regarding no place to clip an EDC while wearing a tux!

Last concert I tried clipping a stainless steel Byrd Cara Cara 2 IWB...worked, and was comfortable enough, but since I find myself taking the jacket off on several occasions, staying concealed was an issue. No one noticed, but in that particular setting...I'd rather go without than have to explain myself. I hardly ever need a knife while performing anyway...so the SAK does fine. I've also been known to stash an Opinel no. 8 in my breast pocket.
 
I carry a Case scout pattern regularly (although I believe they call it a camper to avoid the stigma :D) Great knife.
 
I carried an Ulster Scout knife when I was a Boy Scout back in the late 60's. It was a pretty nice knife, well built with a carbon steel blade. I still carry it in the woods.

It's a little chunky for EDC but when I'm back in the woods sitting in front of a campfire I like the memories it evokes while I carve little sticks into littler sticks. :D

I still have my Ulster also. It's a solid, handy knife. But, like most the men I know, I ended up getting into trappers, stockmen, and the larger lock backs for carry. But, that old Ulster still rests on my table and I fiddle with it every now and then. It holds lots of memories.

Like others here, it seems as I get older my tastes in knives shift a little. I seldom carry my 110, 119, or any other knife much larger than my trappers or stockmen. Most day's I'll have a sak on me too. So, my EDC rotation typically will be a trapper or stockman, plus a sak for the tools on it. Seems to work well for me, no matter what I'm doing.
 
I have always liked boy scout knives and have tried carrying them.They are kind of uncomfortable in the pocket but a cub scout knife without the bail is my scout knife of choice now. I recently got an old camillus on ebay for $10. It is much better than the new ones but still lacking in fit & finish. I am going to make one here before long like the cub scout knife (without the can opener). It is a real good design but I have yet to see a really well built BS knife yet. Maybe I will get rich selling them to wealthy cub scouts!
Gene
 
For those of you having carry issues, I carry my scout knife by clipping a carabiner through the bail. I then clip the biner to the back of my pocket, where a knife clip would go. This leaves the knife dangling in your pocket, making it easy to access---and also stops the knife from settling down sideways in your pocket. Ain't that the worst?
 
Do you think the 'boy' in the name boy scout knife scared off some old timers?

Carl.

I think there is a lot in a name. For example, I carry a soldier SAK everyday. I think it is a fine, very useful knife. But I don't think Victorinox would have sold as many of 'em if it were named the "Boy's" SAK.

:D

TR Graham
The Glocksmith
 
I think that the "boy" connotation, the quality issue, and the bulk all have played a role in reducing popularity of the utility knife. However, if you know what to look for, some of them are of outstanding quality, and of course some of the old ones are worth a lot of money. Here is one that is in my edc rotation, and it has come in handy. It is not pretty but the quality is excellent. It is made to take it.

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Remove the saw, and you have a "deluxe" model BSA knife that was by far the best of the otherwise sorry Ulster U.S.A. knives - and stainless too. A quite decent knife.

Until WWII, official BSA knives were made by the top companies. Remington has been mentioned, but there were also New York Knife Company, Cattaraugus, Landers, Frary & Clark, and Ulster Knife Company (NOT Ulster USA).

After WWII, Camillus and Imperial were used. OK quality but much softer main blades. Then Ulster USA.

Camillus was a big step up in quality, until they went under.

Probably the Vics and Wengers have been the best BSA knives since WWII.

Strangely, the Colonial Cub pattern knife that was fraudulently represented as a USA product was probably the best of the Cub knives.

And I too carry a Farmer most of the time. ^____^
 
I started scouts in the '70s with a Kamp King...as discussed, it wasn't high quality, but it served its intended purpose.

Though I was in scouting as a kid for several years, I didn't get my first official scout knife till I was an adult leader. It was an early-'80s Camillus model with the phillips screw driver. Pretty good quality knife.

Though I wasn't involved in scouting for many years thereafter, I always enjoyed carrying the BSA knife. Useful, and nostalgic.

From what I've seen over the years, the quality of the official BSA knives declined but the price kept high. SAKs were just a better deal all around.
 
It's funny, but when I became a Scout leader I replaced my trusty old Zippo Cutabout lockback with a Swiss Army Huntsman, I just liked the way it looked. I've carried it in a pouch on my belt for years, even to work in a shirt and tie. People just smiled and figured I was a bit odd since I really didn't need a knife as an IT manager, but some of the tools saved me from having to go back to my office if someone grabbed me in the hallways for a quick repair job.

After awhile I bought a Swiss Champ and threw it in my backpack, now it's in my BOB and it's always there waiting for me. I bought a new Wood Badge labeled Huntsman when I earned my beads earlier this year, now it's on my belt. The funny thing is I sometimes alternate it with a Case Camper. I never knew Case even made that pattern until a few years ago and I have more than a few Case. I must have just been not seeing, or didn't think Case made a "Scout" type pattern. When I saw the Camper I bought it immediately. Now that they have the Jr. Scout I'm thinking about picking one up, and a Remington repro, maybe even a Boker...

My Scouts mostly carry lockbacks, a couple have SAK but cheapo Chinese lockbacks are far more common. My brother-in-law and I did a knife safety refresher last week at our meeting, and I ended up blabbing about patterns and slipjoints and blade styles/steels and not once did the boys look bored. First time I've seen that when adults are going on about boring things like safety. ;)

The one main thing that bothers me is that "official" BSA knives now sold at camps and trading posts are Chinese. Even the parents of the boys didn't know Case made official BSA knives, not that they would buy a $50 knife for a 12 year old. But more than a few parents (and former Scouts) have gone and gotten themselves Case BSA knives.

And all the mention of the better Scout knives from back in the day remind me of our Troop Chairman. He carries his official BSA knife from the 60's with him to camp every year. It's a nice knife, I think it's a Camillus, and except for being sharpened is like mint. When we're shooting the bull and he's sharpening it, or whittling with it he has a look in his eyes that tells me it's the most special knife in the entire world.
 
Remove the saw, and you have a "deluxe" model BSA knife that was by far the best of the otherwise sorry Ulster U.S.A. knives - and stainless too. A quite decent knife.

Until WWII, official BSA knives were made by the top companies. Remington has been mentioned, but there were also New York Knife Company, Cattaraugus, Landers, Frary & Clark, and Ulster Knife Company (NOT Ulster USA).

IIRC, Ulster USA was one of the 2 companies that Baer purchased to combine to make what would be known as Schrade. Ulster USA was known for using their Swinden key construction, but I've not heard of them being referred to as "sorry" by very many people. Would like to hear more about that.

In any event, I think there may be some truth the OP's question but I'm not sure the problem was "boy" so much as it was "scouts". Couple of things....

First, it bears remembering that a) the classic BSA knife is a specific example of the more general "camper" or "utility" pattern and b) all sorts of pattern (including lockbacks and fixed blades) had the status of being an "Official BSA Knife". Never-the-less, we refer to such knifes as "scout" knives for a good reason. No other style of scout knife has the status of being the scout knife in the same way as the 4 blade camper pattern does. And companies like Ulster USA marketed those knives to scouts very hard in the 60s and 70s. It's worth looking through the old Ulster adds at the Schrades R Us site to get a feel for those old adds.

Second, I suspect that the popularity of the camper knife among adults varies by region and background. I associate the camper knife with the camp culture of New England and the Adirondacks, which includes kids camps, fishing/hunting lodges and even the church camp culture of the 50s through 70s. I'm not at all surprised that this pattern is more associated with New York state or Providence, RI makes (New York Knife, Imperial, Ulster, Camillus) and less with Pennsylvania or western makers (Case, Buck, Western).

Regarding background, we've heard several stories here on this board of WWII and Korean War vets who carried camp knifes and this is consistent with some of the older vets I've been acquainted with. We know that many soldiers bought and carried US hunting knives instead of the military issued knifes and we know that there is close relationship between those designs. In the same way, the 4 camper is very closely related to the 4 blade, all stainless military "Demo" knife and it's not at all surprising to me that vets came home carrying campers instead of demo knives. My brother in law's dad was a Sea Bee in WWII and worked building roads the rest of his life. He always carried a camper style pocket knife.

Related, 4 blade campers have (or had) a bit of a following among the backpacking/climbing boom of the 70s as a non-stainless alternative to the SAK. You'll find references to them in the older backpacking books of the era and in magazine reviews.

But at the end of the day, SAKs have a much bigger following than camper/BSA knives do and while I think "boy" was a part of the marketing success, it was only a part of it.

I think "scout" became just as negative of a word by the mid to late 70s. The 70s saw an explosion of outdoor sports recreation including cycling, backpacking, climbing, cross country skiing and hot-dog skiing. In all of these forms, the ability to head out on your own terms without the constraints of official oversight or competition were a part of the ideal. The formality of scouting ran absolutely counter to that. Please note, I'm not busing on scouting in anyway, just noting that the scouting ideal and the do-you-own-thing ideal of the 70s outdoor recreation boom were at logger heads.

SAK's had 2 things going for them in a positive way regarding marketing. First, they were Swiss and the 60s and 70s saw a flood of outdoor recreation brands come in to US before the US makers responded. In the 60s up through the early 80s, if you were buying skis, bikes, backpacks, crampons, ice axes, hiking boots, camp stoves or tents, you were almost certainly looking at European brands. I would love to talk to the sales and marketing people of the US knife makers from that era but it seems to me that the growing outdoor recreation boom of the 70s was a huge opportunity lost for the US knife makers. If you looked at REI catalogs from the late 70s, or visited Eastern Mountain Sports stores (or their mom & pop equivalents) you would find Swiss Army Knives there along side of Italian hiking boots and Swedish camp stoves but you would not see any US made knives, camp or otherwise.

The second thing that SAKs had and have going for them is their association with the military. And in particular, with a somewhat non-offensive army of the Swiss. It would be interesting to think if Camillus and Schrade could have turned the 4 blade camper into a brand icon in the 70s had they successfully gone after the backpacking market in the US. I think the association with scouting wasn't going to sell well with that crowd and I suspect that had they marketed them as "US Army Utility Knives" and worked to blur the lines between the campers and the demo knives, they would have similarly encountered market resistance to being associated with the US military, which for right or for wrong was problematic for some people in the 70s (I work for the military, so please don't think I'm busting on the military).

Last thing to toss out here is that I don't think quality was or is the big differentiator here. I've broken more SAKs under normal to light use than all other knives combined. Scales fall off, scissor springs break or otherwise fall to pieces and entire knives just fall into bits. Yes, this is almost all with Victorinox knives. Add to this that the vast majority of Victorinox knives I've handled have at least one absolute nail breaker and my general ambivalence to their stainless and they leave me feeling, meh. I'm not busting on Victorinox particularly here. Just noting that they don't stand out as being head and shoulders better than the US camper knifes.

Here's my Ulster camper. It's in my EDC rotation. Great knife. Sharpens up like nobodies business and slices through things with such ease that it makes me giggle like a school girl.
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:eek:How the heck have you been breaking SAKS? I think the worst I did was bend a corkscrew once, and I abuse the heck out of mine.
 
Normal use. I got about a year of service out the scissors before they'd crap out. And scales would last about 2 years before falling off. Pocket use. Tossed into backpacks and in with other tools and stuff. Normal stuff.

Of course, I never succeeded at wearing out blades/tools that were nailbreak stiff, but that's another problem on its own.

Note, I have a 40 year old Ulster I got when I was a kid that's busted to. I may not be gentle on knives. But, it's still holding together, has it's scales and the blade is still functional (albeit a bit loose) where other SAKs have died completely on me.

Again, not saying that SAK's suck. They don't. They're just normal, just like the Ulsters and Schrades I've owned.
 
I am an Eagle Scout. But I never carried a boy scout knife. I had buck lock backs, and a couple of different fixed blades.

My "boy scout" knife as it were, was a slip joint folder with a couple tools. Saw, screw drivers, cork screw etc.
 
A few years after WW II, B.S.A. seemed to lose the entire quality idea when it came to folders. They went strictly for the low bidder. Western/Imperial slid into the later "annealed" Ulster U.S.A. (Except for SAK's and that SS Ulster job with the cut scales. WHERE did that come from?)

Then, to my pleasure they saw their way back to Camillus. We know how that tale ended. 0___0

So here we are with the ups and downs of Bear, the "CHINA" knife with golden glow of their bolsters and the rounded finish on every aspect of the screwdriver ("Chinese Screwdriver Disease"), and (thankfully) SAK's.

As for the original thesis, "boy" in a name is not well-calculated to appeal to some men.

Our military in WWII found resistance to shorts for the tropics on the grounds that shorts were for boys. Men wore long pants.
 
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