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Difference between short sword and long knife?

A

Adamantium

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
355
Okay, okay. I might have been the first person in history to use the term "long knife" but I'm wondering where do you guys and gals draw the line on how long the blade has to be on a knife before it is called a short sword?

Sincerely,
Adam
 
My highly unscientific, highly subjective, totally unverified opinion on the difference is that a short sword was intended for one OR two-handed use, whereas a long knife is intended for one hand, even if you can manage to get both of your hands on it.
 
To add to the confusion, I just finished a two handed, forty inch machete for a client....or was it a sword?

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Ron Ruppé
http://www.ruppe.com

[This message has been edited by Ruppe (edited 21 November 1998).]
 
There's LOTS of one-handed swords, the various basket-hilt types come immediately to mind.

Dunno. I think if it can do fine-control utility work with one hand, it's a knife...hmmmm...ya, that's as good a definition as any.

Sigh.

JM
 
It isn't (IMHO) a matter of blade length, but of design. A small sword can have a blade 12" long, and a big knife can have a blade 36" long.
Being big doesn't make a knife a sword, any more than being small makes a sword a knife.
Look at the relative sizes of a Khyber knife and a tanto (yes, a tanto is a sword).


 
Trevor - So continue....What is the difference in the design?

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Ron Ruppé
http://www.ruppe.com
 
Trevor, one minor nit-pick here: the Tanto was *historically* considered a knife, it meets all of the definitions of a knife OUTSIDE of Japan.

Under Japanese law after WW2, all sharpened blades non specifically designed for kitchen use are swords. Tantos generally ran 7" through about 10 - 11 tops.

If I brought a Mad Dog ATAK (7") to Japan and wore it, I could be convicted of public carry of a sword. 6" and below they're fairly tolerant from the little I've heard...but in any case, you can't use Japan's whacked laws to define "sword".

(Sidenote: Japan also limits yearly "sword" production by limiting each maker to two "swords" per month, makers have to be guild members, etc. They did an exception for production stuff for the export market *only*...this is why traditional-made Japanese blades are so pricey.)

Jim March
 
Trevor and everybody, "tanto" translates as "short sword".
Just my 10.28 pennies (the course of dollar is going up again).

Jani
 
The Roman Gladius ran from 12" to 2 ft and was always considered a short sword. There are many "knives" that are longer. Adamantium I've heard many butcher knives refered to as long knives. I think the difference is in the intent of the blade. A sword is for attacking and defending yourself from attack. A knife serves many purposes, only one of which is combat.

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JerryO
 
The distinction between a knife and a sword can be fuzzy. A Forschner 12" cook's knife is clearly a knife, while a 12" gladius is clearly a sword. A machete or a panga or a kukri, is an agricultural knife. But what is it, when that farm tool is Exhibit A in the frightful massacre of hundreds of thousands of people in Rwanda, or the much feared issue sidearm of Gurkha soldiers?

Maybe it's the "sidearm" role that makes the kukri a knife. Maybe a sword is a bladed weapon (but not a pole arm or an axe) that a soldier or officer or lord would carry as a primary weapon, and would not normally use for utilitarian purposes. A small secondary weapon, like a maine gauche or a concealed dagger would not be a sword.

The distinction blurs or vanishes in some languages and cultures. Tantos have been mentioned. In Hebrew, the word "cherev" means a sword suitable for smiting, a flint circumcision knife, or a stoneworking chisel.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
It looks like ya'll are getting lost in semantics.

The dictionary defines sword as a weapon having a long blade for cutting or thrusting, often worn ceremonially as a symbol of authority and power...an instrument of death, combat or destruction.
Knife...a cutting instrument consisting of a sharp blade, with or without a handle.

Note the implicit connotations in the definitions....Knife=tool........sword=weapon. From a realistic everyday perspective there aren't utility swords, but there are plenty of extremely long knives such as flensing knives and machetes.

Remember, language is daily being obscured, corrupted and distorted by ill-educated media hacks. A machete is a tool (not a sword) that was designed as a tool. Every single tool can be used as a weapon. The inverse is not necessarily operative
 
James - Following your definition, when a military officer is carrying a firearm as his primary weapon, does the sword he is also carrying become a long knife? Just wondering.

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Ron Ruppé
http://www.ruppe.com
 
For a modern military officer, the sword is not a weapon, but a badge of office, a relic of a day when the sword was a primary weapon. The sword became obsolete as a military weapon with the invention of modern firearms. For an 18th century cavalryman, the flintlock pistol would have been a sidearm.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
James - I was just kidding! Be careful, or I 'll have to post our 5th grade class picture! That could be bad for both of us!

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Ron Ruppé
http://www.ruppe.com
 
What about useing a sword for somethnig like a machete? Does it then jump from a weapon to a tool?

Thanks for all the helpful info

Sincerely,
Adam
 
Yes. It's all in the intent of the bearer.

Unless the sword is so unsuited for the work that doing it with a sword is a bit of a stunt, like slicing a wedding cake with an officer's sword. You can, I suppose, harvest sugar cane with a Masamune katana, but it would be both an inefficient way to harvest the sugar cane, and an abuse of a national treasure. And you can use a machete to smite thy fellow humans, but that is a felony in most jurisdictions.

All objects that can do work can do damage. Most objects that can do damage can do work. Maybe all, with enough imagination, but that has not been proven yet.



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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com

 
After a little more thought and a reading of the dictionary, I think that a sword is a type of long knife whose purpose is primarily for use as weapon either literally or figuretively and does not fit the definition of a dirk, dagger, machete or poignard.

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Ron Ruppé
http://www.ruppe.com
 
OK, let's screw with definitions even *further*.

In my small collection is a 19th century European shortsword of a type known as an "Engineer's Sword" with unknown regimental markings. Haven't bothered to get it appraised yet but crown mark is of a type that looks similar to the Dutch crown.

It's got a 16" blade, single-hand brass grip with typical "s" shaped vertical guard, slight curve. It's 1/4" stock at the guard tapering to about 1/8th at the tip, flat ground and single edge except at the last three inches.

It's got one small mark at the tip that looks like it saw prybar use, and the upper grip was clearly used to pound 19th-century-type square nails. Engineer's swords were given to engineer corps officers who "had to have a sword" as badge of office but said swords were designed as tough TOOLS because that's invariable what they'd get used as.

As an aside, the steel is still sound, takes a good edge and is a great "bedside companion", especially for a close-range indoor fight. I wish to hell I'd taken it to AZ for Kevin's party, 'cuz he allowed a Busse shortsword into the wood-chop competition whose owner walked away with a MirageX.

And this sucker can still chop better than that Busse.

Jim March
 
I only just saw this thread and I want to comment. Sorry for being late.

I should think that the basic difference is one of intent. What was the thing intended for? If it was intended as a tool, it would be a knife, if it was intended as a weapon it would be a sword. I do have one problem here, however. What is a Bowie knife? I seem to remember that its original intent was as a weapon, after the infamous Natchez Sandbar Fight. Also, original intent would be damned hard to debate with Officer Friendly or a judge.

One other point, please. Adamantium, what was the weapon of the "Night of the Long Knives" in Nazi Germany?
 
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