Different sorta handle questions, maybe?... (long and boring)

T

Trick

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Mar 3, 2001
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This whole journey I am getting ready to embark on all started with my favorite past time of metal detecting and not having any quality digging tools. I have always loved knives and will make knives. But my main goal is to make real digging tools specifically for metal detecting. I have some original designs in my mellon. I have a market, I need to build a quality product.

I have made a few on an old 6"x48" before. The first one I made for someone else that is a big time dealer and he said it was the best he had seen and will sell all I make. Well, whatever. It wasn't near as nice as I know I can do but it is effective. 5160 steel compared to the soft stainless most people that make them and most companies use. The handle on the most popular digger is bent with a steel pipe welded on making it offset. I do not really notice a benefit of it being offset but most prefer it like that. That one is carbon steel of some type but it will not hold an edge very long. I have made one like that with 5160 and it turned out fine except I made it to thin and it is a little more bendy than I want.

For that type like that I would like to put on a removeable handle. Probably like those survival knives used to have on them with a threaded cap but removeable. Threaded so you could change handle lengths. I also have a few other ideas but that is the gist of it. I assume I would have to weld a threaded piece to the bend of the digger. I guess it would still be called a tang? What would you recommend for the handle part? I know I will have to have a decent sized lathe and mill. I will be getting a unimat 3 lathe with mill attachment next week but I don't think it will be big enough for this. I need a handle that will take being used as a pry bar and something easy to take care of. I will probably use 3m cold shrink or some kind of durable material that will make it non slip. So the finish is not all that important. Would it be ok to make it out of soft stainless and thread to high carbon? Could a solid chunk of machined aluminum take the stress? Would it be ok to use as long as no-seize was used on the threads between the aluminum and the steel?

On nicer custom diggers I would like to use heavy duty natural handle materials. I also would like to inlay an old coin of some type and need it to stay. Would two ton epoxy hold one and it not come out from the side force put on the handle? Maybe a bunch of coats of clear over it?

Sorry to make y'all read through that. But I wanted you to know why I have such strange questions. :)
Ric
 
Ric, As far as inlaying the coins, what I've done is solder 3 flat headed machine screws on the backside of the coin. Rout out where the coin sits down into the material and drill in where the screws go down into the material. I use brass screws # 6, 8, or 10 and cut them off per length I need. Sometimes I have used 4 of them. You will have to countersink the screw holes in the handle material so the screwheads will fit down into the handle. I then take my Dremel and go down to the bottom of the drilled holes and route a cavity at the bottom of the holes. This gives the whole works an extra anchor. I use only Brownell's Accuglas for my epoxy and have NEVER had anything come loose. Have you considered cutting down trenching tools or spades for your tools? And you might find a garden tool from one of those Big Lot stores to cut down. Garden tools are really cheap priced there. Hope this helps,Ric.
 
I don't claim to be any expert, but I'm guessing I could give more input on materials and how to attach them if we could get a picture of one of these tools. And no, I'm not trying to steal your design. :) Even if it's just a picture of one of the common ones, it'd give a better idea of what it needs to be able to do, what stresses, etc.
 
I was going to post a picture earlier but I could not get my paint shop pro open till I re-started my puter. It's old and slow kinda like me. :D
This is the Lesche brand recovery tool. The most popular one. I have heard that the owner of this company got a divorce or something and the don't make them any more once supplies run out. I called them a soft steel but when they break, they break. They just don't hold an edge at all. The cheap stainless ones bend, they don't break or spring back. You can get those for like $10
To recover a coin with out damaging grass you cut a plug, say abouit 6"-8" in diameter, pry the plug out (Which in dry summer ground you have to apply a lot of pressure on the blade)recover the coin under the plug, usually deeper, then put the plug back exactly how it came out. If you do all this properly you can not tell the ground was cut and the grass don't die out. In the summer when it is dry they can turn brown but when it rains they are fine. These are under $40. The guy I know though said he is sure a high quality tool would sell even twice or three times the money. So I would have to be able to keep cost down for the most part. I think I can do it though. High end diggers with coins in the handle and fancy natural handle materials would be more knife like and probably just for me and for sample pictures. :)
The blade on the lesche is 7". That is too short. Mine would probably be 8"-10" I am always digging with the handle of my lesche below ground level. I dig stuff at up to 16" deep. Deeper for bigger items like relic hunting. A Civil War Belt Plate can be found 20"+ They make a relic shovel that has a longer handle that is not much bigger than this blade, just longer handle. They also make another relic shovel that is a wicked spade looking thing. I am not worried about making those type right now but I am sure I will be asked to if I can make anything worthy. I will find some pictures of those to post in a minute.
You can also probably see why I was asking about the gerber type serrations the other day. These on this are just worthless. :rolleyes:
What is out there now works, barely. I would like to step it up a notch. There is no reason why I should be swinging a $1200 Metal Detector and using a cheap P.O.S. to do all the recovery work. :D
Sounds like a plan on soldering screws on the back of a coin and using the brownell's accuglass! Thanks! :)
lesche1.jpg

lesche2.jpg
 
That looks a lot like a Japanese gardening tool.
One side is concave, and one edge serrated.

Don't think they get as long as you are talking about though, so I don't think that they compete with your improved version. Also I don't recall any with the "guard"--you stomp on this to cut sod I suppose?

The Japanese versions do appear to be higher quality than the tool that you've illustrated.

Speciality importers of Japanese tools often have them. Here's one:

T-27456.jpg


"Stainless Hori-Hori Knife with Sheath."

http://www.stonelantern.com/japanesegardentool.html

Lee Valley Tools

http://www.leevalley.com/home/main.asp

Has both carbon and stainless ones--Look for "Japanese Farmers Knife" Can't point you straight there....their site runs off some sort of script that prevents me from doing so. Better photo there.

I think I recall seeing one example at another site called a "dig-dig" which was said to be the translation of "hori-hori".

I think a search should turn up more examples.
 
Wow, thanks! That is a lot closer to what I have in mind. The first one I made was straight through the handle like that.
I do not use my feet at all. That is just a hand guard, a must have. Even with that I have slid my hand down the blade and cut the crap out of myself on a dull blade. The longer ones are for your feet or hands. They are a little wider but not that much. Maybe 4"-5"?
Edit- I should say that the longer ones you do not put your hands on the foot holds, obviously. Just a death grip on the handle. :)
Sampson.jpg
 
Wish I would have made them! ;)
Here is the one I made for Guvner. It was my first attempt at making a "knife" so be easy. :D There is a lot I would change if I did it now but considering this was over two years ago and is still being used I guess it does the job. The second picture is a commercial cheapy next to it. Any I do now will probably be waaay different. Oh, the guard is made from copper. I thought it was fitting since we find so many copper wheat cents that it gets annoying. :D
knife2.jpg

knife3.jpg
 
While it's more work to make, the trowel-like appearance of the offset handle may be needed to avoid running afoul of the laws many states have regulating double-edged knives and "daggers".

Grubbing around in the park with a hori-hori knife could get one busted in a lot of places I suspect. Doesn't look much different than a lot of overbuilt "tactical" knives that scare the bejesus out of a lot of folks. "You can't have that knife! look at those serrations and the giant blood groove on one side!!" :barf: Sad to have to consider, but a real issue, I think. (Especially if it restricts where one can look for stuff.)

You may be able to find a carbon steel version of a more shovel-like garden trowel with a peened-over rat-tail tang bent to create the offset handle from one of the Japanese tool importers. They seem to often have offerings in both carbon and stainless. Maybe re-heat-treat if needed, and equip it with a handle and guard for your application. Just a thought.
 
No way, we deal with the cops all the time. They don't care. They are more worried about us leaving open holes. One buddy digs with a kukra(Whatever they are called) knife and another with a pakistan huge bowie. They both carry them around by the handle with no sheath. We hunt ghetto parks in St. Louis a lot. It is nothing to hear gunshots close by. My buddy always says as long as you can't see the muzzle flash, you are ok. :eek: We just get out by about 2 in the afternoon. That is when the gang bangers get up and start moving around. It is quite possible that they could be used as a self deffense weapon some day. I know someone that got mugged up in Chicago detecting. I have never been messed with, most are just curious what we are finding or want to sell you watches and stuff. :D We pick up crack pipes and needles all the time and dispose of them properly. Kids do run around these parks. But anyway, no big deal having a mean looking digger as long as it does what it is made for. :) I plan on making a kydex sheath to carry them in.
 
BTW, in the Chicago parks you have to use a shovel. I forgot to mention that. The long handled one above is legal to use.
 
Cool, at least in St Louis.

Just thought looking more trowel-like could increase the number of potential customers if you start selling diggers. Happy hunting.
 
I am from hicksville central illinois and I hunt small towns in the area here. Much more than I go to St. Louis. They live there. The police have never said a word about them ever. I have been kicked out of public parks by ahole cops saying I couldn't hunt and I have got into verbal arguments with them about it and never once has my digger been mentioned sticking out of my pouch in plain sight. Most officers are really cool and ask what we find and are curious how they work. They get called by nosey neighbors and they come to ask that we fill our holes and take our garbage so they can make an appearance. :)
Trowel shape would be fine, it would just have to be thick. Every trowel I have seen bends like rubber the first time they are used. Obviously I haven't owned any quality trowels. I am sure there are some out there that won't bend. It would also have to have a sharp edge. The sharper the edge the better it will be on the grass, IMO.
I appreciate the help. I never thought about it before. They are wicked looking things but they are made to be used and every feature has a purpose. You have to have a serrated edge or a drywall saw or folding saw with you. It never fails, you always find one deep coin directly under a 2" root. :D
 
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