Dilemma ???

M

Mindz_I

Joined
Nov 6, 2002
Messages
435
Ok bascially, I'm going through that phase where I must have another knife (I'm sure you've all been there) and I'm looking for some reasoning in my choice.

Be brutal in your opinons I like to hear every little niggle / issue with something before I buy it.

I've narrowed the choice down too 2 knives namley;
- Spyderco Delica Carbon fibre (plain edge)
- Al Mar Sere 2K

(While you're probably thinking, "those are two totally different types of knives" please read on as this is where the poser is).

My Dilemma arises as I have two requirments to fill and can only really afford one knife;

- EDC

I'd like an exceptionally sharp, low profile and tastefully sheeple friendly knife that could nestle around my person for use throughout my day to day life (must have a good strong pocket clip).

Tasks will be mostly opening boxes, packaging and plastic parcel tape (hence good cutter) and the things an EDC would be used for (removing splinters etc).

It should be easy to open one handed.

As I say it must be rather sheeple friendly with a blade 3" or under, as I'm a resident of the UK where anything over that is illegal without very good reason (This is a reason why the SERE would not be viable).

NB, Self defence is not a consideration.

- Field utility

This would be less used (once a fortnight) I'd require a sturdy knife to cut myself out of brambles when I inevitebly get tangled, clear a small area to shoot through and general small field tasks (the axe mentioned below is not viable in this situation).

This knife would also be used when back backing / hiking once a quarter (for a week or more) for general camp tasks such as cutting light brush, 550 cord and preparing food. For heavier purposes (such as shelter building) it would be supplemented by a Gerber Axe so would most likley do very little chopping.


--

My own thoughts (I'm using this thread as a train of thought more than anything else);


- Since I'd be carrying the Spyderco every single day it will see a hell of alot more useage than the SERE, and therefore it makes sence to have the higher quality knife where It'll yield the greatest benifit (rather than the occasional use of the SERE).

- While I already have quite a light-weight axe that can tackle the heavier work and I might just about get away with using the Delica to tackle the rest of the camp chores, I'm unsure if it would be suitable for a field utility knife without the backup of the axe. Do you think it would manage the tasks described above without adverse effects

Anyway thats my thoughts on the situation, whats your take ?

All and any opinions appreciated, as are alternative knife suggestion.


Cheers
 
Having had an delica before, I think that's the way to go. It will probably be fine for light filed duties as well, plus for heavier you have the axe as you said.
 
How about a mini-griptilian? The modified wharncliffe blade is sheeple friendly, and you could even get it in a non-threatening color like blue, green, or yellow, instead of black. I can get just as sharp an edge on the mini-griptilian as I can on my Delica. Plus the mini-griptilian is built for much heavier duty than the Delica (at least it feels that way to me and that's what alot of people have posted previosly on the forum)
 
Based on your choices and accompanying logic I would say go with the Delica. However, I thought that locking blades were illegal in the UK?
 
Yeah,

I was looking at the mini-griptillian and while it looks a very capable knife I was a bit dubious at to how light it would be. Also while I realise the blade looks more palatteable to 'normal' folks, I think you loose that splinter-diggin' utility that the spyderco offers.

I was considering the Kershaw rainbow finished 'Leek', as I thought they would be looked on fairly kindly due to the colour. However, I'm dubious of the legallity of the opening system in England and think even with the funky colour it could still attract unwanted (and unmeritted) attention.

Originally posted by trane_fan
Based on your choices and accompanying logic I would say go with the Delica. However, I thought that locking blades were illegal in the UK?
Click to expand...

Its a really tough one this and depending who you speak to and what you read you get a different answer.
I belive that legally (as its written) you are allowed any folding blade 3" or under, permitted to carry something longer only with very good reason (Chef, Game keeper, hunter etc).
However; I belive it is the case that in a fairly recent court case, it was argued that a blade that locks can no longer be considered a folding knife (and hence is a fixed blade) and therefore is illegal to carry.

Personally, while I do see the reasoning behind the argument I think its awfully stupid to ban a device which predominantly designed for increased saftey
 
Stupid or not (and I agree that it is) you may want to get competent verification before you spend your money on something that could turn out to be useless and/or illegal.
 
Locking knives arent classified as folding knifes here in th uk and yes, it is illegal to carry them unless you have a specific and immadiate use for them. your example for hunting you would have a use for the blade however you must not carry it beyond its use ie you could carry it for hunting but you could be arrested if after hunting you went to the supermarket and still had it in your pocket / on your belt.

stupid i know but thats how it is

in the uk your options for legal EDC are limited to a SAK, a leatherman or a non locking slipjoint like a case or that new spyderco pride...
 
Originally posted by trane_fan
Stupid or not (and I agree that it is) you may want to get competent verification before you spend your money on something that could turn out to be useless and/or illegal.
Click to expand...

Aye, I do intend to.

Its easy enough to get verbal confirmation from officers in the police-stations but "they aint worth the paper they're printed on" as they say.

Originally posted by bladefixation
new spyderco pride...
Click to expand...


:D ooh any pictures ?
 
its not 'new' new but its newish (to me at least :D) its at

http://www.spyderco.com/dealer_prod...1010&mscssid=GEVM6851VGUC8M5MQU8BFHRNFRVU38V8

you might have to cut and paste the link as its a long one (!)

otherwise you can see it on www.spyderco.com at the bottom of page 4 of the online catalogue

I think its about £40 - £50 gbp in the UK

I was thinking of getting one myself as an EDC, then I considered a small case texas toothpick but i ended up with my new TOPS nite chaser instead :D

My view on the uk is I have a leatherman I can legally carry i might as well buy knives I enjoy for use when I can rather than buying smaller knives I dont like just so i can carry (if that makes sense!) plus im not a fan of non locking blades
 
eeuch I Can't say i'm at all keen on that. Looks so tacky, and in the short time since your post I've noticed people seem to say it closes awfully easily.

Whats the "TOPS nite chaser" ? UK legal ?

Anyone know if *gulp* opinels are legal ?
 
'eugh' was my reaction too when I saw that spyderco!

TOPS nite chaser is a sweet knife but its far from uk leagal as an EDC

3.75 inch modified tanto 154CM fixed blade razor sharp from the factory, very attractive micarta scales. TOPS knives also have a lifetime warranty and lifetime free factory resharpening. I will almost certainly get another one

have a gander at

http://www.topsknives.com/products_pages/productdetail/nitechaser.html

they make the 'street scalpel' you sometimes hear talked about on the forums
 
Mindz I,

I'm a British police officer. The advice you have received is correct: the only EDC legally allowed is a sub-3" slip-joint folder, e.g. an SAK. My opinion of this law is unprintable....

As to the Spyderco "Pride": I have one and it's an excellent piece of kit. In use it cannot close because the finger groove nearest the blade (the one which receives your index finger)is partly in the scales and partly in the ricasso (the unsharpened portion of the blade). In effect, your index finger forms a "lock" holding the blade open. The knife is of excellent quality and design.

I own and carry a SERE 2000. It is a superb knife and would probably be my folder of choice were I to find myself in the jungles of Sumatra or the wilds of Cumbria. (And this from the owner of a large Sebenza!)

My wife has a BM Mini Griptilian. She has tiny hands & it suits her very well. It's an excellent knife. However, it locks, as does the Delica.....

My opinion? If you want to observe the law, carry a Pride and/or an SAK.

If - like me- you trust to the 11th Commandment, get the SERE 2000. It's a Challenger tank melted down & forged into a knife. Its clip allows it to ride deep in a pocket. It is not, however, sheeple-friendly as it's BIG.

Have fun choosing.

maximus otter
 
Originally posted by bladefixation
TOPS nite chaser is a sweet knife but its far from uk leagal as an EDC
Click to expand...

Ah that is rather tasty, I was expecting something like one of those little LED keychain knives you see :D


I did spot this http://www.donrearic.com/images/sakpic2.jpg
but sadley that has a liner lock :(


Originally posted by maximus otter

As to the Spyderco "Pride": I have one and it's an excellent piece of kit. in use it cannot close because the finger groove nearest the blade (the one which receives your index finger)is partly in the scales and partly in the ricasso (the unsharpened portion of the blade). In effect, your index finger forms a "lock" holding the blade open. The knife is of excellent quality and design.
Click to expand...

Hmmm thats interesting, do you mean that the blade can't physically close on your hand because the part that will first try to close on your hand will be stopped by your fingers ? (i.e. the blade is closing on your fingers, just not the sharp bit as the pivot point is further down the handle).

I'm still not too fond of the looks, nor the alu / steel looking scales but I noticed they do it with a Spyderco logo in-place of the god awful flag.


Thanks all for your help and suggestions (lucky I managed to stave off the impulse buy for once).
 
Mindz I,

"Hmmm thats interesting, do you mean that the blade can't physically close on your hand because the part that will first try to close on your hand will be stopped by your fingers ? (i.e. the blade is closing on your fingers, just not the sharp bit as the pivot point is further down the handle)."

Exactly.

"I'm still not too fond of the looks, nor the alu / steel looking scales but I noticed they do it with a Spyderco logo in-place of the God-awful flag ."

You could write this about our flag on St. George's Day ?

:mad:

maximus otter
 
This is purely an academic matter for me, since I can pretty much carry whatever I darn well choose where I'm at, but....I was just wondering...

Would a knife with a swingout handle such as Saca Tripas featured at Laci Szabo's site be legal? (not much of a realistic option it appears unless ya' REALLY like drawcuts)

http://www.szaboinc.com/index1.html

Or perhaps a slightly modified Buck Revolution XT with the plunge-lock removed? (practically that could result in some bloodied fingers, but once again, this is purely a curiousity for me)


I guess regarding your knife choice it would boil down to a couple other questions in my mind....How nasty is the UK in enforcing the law regarding locking knives? if they commandeer everything you've ever owned and throw you in a dark cell to rot for the rest of your mortal life, in aint worth it. If they slap ya' on the wrist and give ya' a $25 fine, it may be worth the risk.

Also curous what other UK cops attitudes are towards this? Are they as decent an' easy goin' as good ole Maximus Otter here, or do most of them get all kinda nasty about things?

Regarding your choices..even though I consider the SERE 2K as one of the end all be all best knives of all time, that would be pushing it way far for EDC, as far as social acceptance. although that deeeeeeep riding pocket clip is damn nice.

The Delica is one helluva fine cutting little knife, and it's quite easy to get along with as an EDC, and less likely to cause mass panic and chaos around folks.

All things laid out though I'd most likely go with the Pride. Ugly as hell, but purty is as purty does, eh? 'specially if it keeps ya' outta knee deep feces wid da man... (I hate answering Knife "C" when the original choices were only "A" or "B" but I couldn't help it on this one...sorry!)

Good luck with yer choices!
 
Originally posted by maximus otter

You could write this about our flag on St. George's Day ?
Click to expand...

Don't get me wrong;
I have the greatest respect for our Flag and country in every way, shape and form, but I believe that it belongs either on a flag pole or on your sleeve and not emblazoning an incarnation such as this.

I find items such as this (especially when they are so blatant and tactless)disrespectful, distastefull and no better that wearing union flag shorts !

I'm awfully sorry if I offended you with what I wrote, but I should have made it clear that my statement refered to the usage of the flag in the design, and not the flag itself.


Originally posted by Runs With Scissors

Would a knife with a swingout handle such as Saca Tripas featured at Laci Szabo's site be legal? (not much of a realistic option it appears unless ya' REALLY like drawcuts)
Click to expand...


Assuming you're refering to this item; http://www.szaboinc.com/images/original_saca.jpg

I'd personally be very reluctnant to try that out for a number of reasons;

- The finger loops grab me instantly as a problem and even if they wern't legally an issue, I'd imagine they would be heavily frowned upon by any LEO.

- It seems to be designed to be used inverted, with the blade facing towards the user (is this correct ?) and by the looks the user would be hard pressed to use it for any kind of utility work. I belive any knife designed for 'self-defence' or such, in the UK is once again heavily frowned upon if not totally illegal.

- On the locking system, I'd once again be reluctant to carry it, given the blade does have a fixed handle of sorts, with only a sort of cover folding to sheild the blade and pad out the handle. With that in mind I Think it might come across as a fixed blade.

Also, I've found its usually the case that if something is out of the norm and 'exotic' such as this it is immediatly treated with suspicion even if it is not merited.


Originally posted by Runs With Scissors

I guess regarding your knife choice it would boil down to a couple other questions in my mind....How nasty is the UK in enforcing the law regarding locking knives?
Also curous what other UK cops attitudes are towards this? Are they as decent an' easy goin' as good ole Maximus Otter here, or do most of them get all kinda nasty about things?
Click to expand...

Oddly this is something I've never really looked into ( Maximus, can you shed any light on the situation ), but I guess it largely comes down to the situation.

People have often said "Why not carry it anyway, its not like you're going to be searched".
I personally took the view that even if I wouldn't be that likley to get into trouble, I really didn't fancy the prospect of having my rather tasty pocket knife being 'confiscated'


All things considered I really wish Spyderco released the Pride in a plain FRN type handle, such as the 'Meercat' as I'd much rather have a nice simple knife :(
 
MinDz I, first of all, let me apologize if you took my St. George's Day remark seriously! It was intended light-heartedly, but when I tried to insert a smiley face, things started going wrong & I lost patience. I'm patriotic, but quietly so.

Runs with Scissors & Mindz I,

Attitudes will vary from officer to officer. Generally speaking we (the Brits) live in a disarmed, acquiescent country in which dependency is the norm. Anything to do with knives, guns, or self-defence is frowned upon. Carrying any sort of knife is looked on as eccentric, if not illegal. Just today, I showed a supervisor at work my Gerber 600 multitool. His first remark? "Is that legal?" :barf: Imagine his attitude if I'd been carrying my Sebenza/ SERE 2000/ Fallkniven A1/ Trailmaster!

Older bobbies would tend to be more pragmatic about knives. If you look respectable, don't get involved in grief and mind your own business, you have a better chance of being struck by a meteorite than of being stopped and/or searched by the police.

If you are unlucky, and the officer finds a Sebenza or similar, a quiet, reasoned explanation and an indication of the high quality of the knife should suffice. Give every indication of good character and be polite. He would probably save face and play the game by advising you not to to be found carrying it again.

With a younger officer, you will have more problems. He has been raised since birth in a society where displays of self-reliance and individuality are frowned upon. Knives, to the young officer, equal violence. This attitude is fostered in training school and parroted endlessly in our media. Also, officers young in service are required to prove their worth by actively pursuing arrests etc.

In a worst case scenario you could be arrested. Today, you would almost inevitably be officially cautioned (which involves you admitting the offence and thereby incurring a conviction on your record....) and suffer confiscation & destruction of the knife.

If you have previous convictions, a magistrates' court hearing could result. If found guilty of unlawful possession of a bladed or pointed instrument, I would guess at a fine of £50 to £100; also confiscation etc.

"Everything not compulsory is forbidden"

maximus otter
 
I find the whole UK weapon thing pretty lame to be honest. we have come down alot in the last 100 yrs

We used to have one of the best gunmakers in the world (Webley) and now all they can make money at is air rifles.

We used to have probably the best cutlery business in the world (Sheffield steel) and now thats a shadow of its former self and all of hte knife designs I have seen from Sheffield recently have been poor copies of designs from the US.

The only thing we make well are crossbows (Barnett) but I bet the vast majority of their sales are to the U.S. They did however make a sale of one of their fine Commando II recurve bows to myself last year. twang!
 
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