Disappointed in ZDP189

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Mar 17, 2005
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I got a new Jess Horn ZDP189 on a trade and it just didn't have the out of the box sharpness that all of my other Spydies did. So, as of right now, I like VG10 better but I am willing to give it some time and see what it does but not a good first impression.

Kevin
 
Kevin, any factory knife can be a little hit-or-miss on sharpness, even from the best company. As long as the fit and finish are good and the blade is properly heat treated, you'll find that it doesn't really make much difference, unless you want the knife as a show piece.

After all, once you get into using it regularly, it will need sharpening anyway. This way, you put your own preferred edge on it right from the start, toothy or polished, obtuse or acute.
 
I'm curious as to why you say you're disappointed in the steel. Is it the steel's fault if it wasn't sharpened properly? Certainly some steels are more difficult to hone than others, and given the hardness claims I've heard for ZDP-189, this could be one of them. But even that's a completely different issue than how the blade performs once it has been properly sharpened. Sounds to me like you have a QA issue, not a steel issue.
 
I received an Endura with the ZDP-189 steel a week or so ago. It has a Partially serrated blade. The serrations cut like crazy but the portion that is not serrated did not seem to be very sharp to me either. I will say the factory grind was very impressive though it did not cut as well as I had expected. I sat down with a Hard Arkansas stone and Very lightly honed the edge till it started to shine and since then it has been outstanding. A little honeing oil and many very light strokes was the trick for mine... ~baba~
 
I was not even trying to state that Spyderco does not know how to sharpen their knives. As a matter of fact I am a hopeless fan of all products produced by Spyderco. I feel that any knife design that any manufactuer builds has a spec it is supposed to meet including that of the edge grind as well as a specific sharpness. As for my putting a slight honeing on the ZDP-189 steel of my Endura, for all I know I ruined what ever edge retention plan Spyderco might have engineered into the blade. But as was stated the knife now meets MY criteria for MY cutting needs. My statement regarding the sharpness being less then I had anticipated could have been merely the Hype regarding the ZDP steel I have read again & again. I may have just expected too much. I never said I was not happy with the overall knife and in fact made several positive remarks regarding the Endura 4. There are alot of folks who carry on about sharpening or re-profileing an "out of the box" knife before ever using it. Most of my Spyderco knives go a long way before they touch a stone and some I own have yet to be sharpened no matter how much I have used them. I just ordered a new Calypso JR w/ZDP-189 and now I have a benchmark to work with. Though the Calypso is supposed to be a laminated blade where as the Endura 4 is not. We will see???? No negatives here just a fan & his take....
 
I recently sent a couple of brand new ZDP-189 Enduras to Spyderco.
Didn't like the lockup on either of them.

I was very impressed when, a few days later, I got a phone call from Spyderco. One of their people had my 2 knives in hand, and was going over the issues I'd noted in the letter I'd enclosed.

Anyway, as we were talking, she suddenly said "Do you want us to sharpen 'em up for you too? Hmmm (a moment as she tests the edges...) yes feels like they could use a sharpening. We'll do that too."

So - while I was knocked out by the super quality of Spyderco customer service - here was one of their own people saying my brand new ZDP-189s "could use a sharpening".
 
That's interesting....

The Jess Horn I have was VERY sharp out of the box as I'm used to when it comes to Spydies, but the ZDP Delica I recieved a few months ago wasn't very impressing. The sharpness was on the "OK"-Level, but not as sharp as any other Spyderco knife I bought new. In addition, the grind was kind of "uneven", with the degree being slightly different on both sides and going well over 40° towards the tip.

With a bit of work on the sharpmaker, it ended up really sharp, but I didn't reprofile it.... and since I was kinda dissapointed about this particular knife in the very beginning, it never really fell in love with it and ended up selling it to a friend for a very fair price. (it is still a fine knife, though :-))

That said, its bigger brother, an Endura ZDP PE, is on the way to me :-) (which is another reason I sold the Delica...they just are very related, so the loss for my collection is not that serious.) I really hope (and am sure) that this knife will be as perfect in fit&finish as Spydercos usually are.

Take care

Dennis
 
my zdp horn was the sharpest spydie out of box i've ever had. sliced almost my entire "thumb pad" on left hand -- requiring 11 stiches, and I still do not have compete feeling in my left thumb. i've used it over a year -- moderately -- and have not sharpened it. it could now use one, and i will sharpen it soon, but it is still sharp enough to handle edc chores.
 
I am wondering if the laminated blades have some distinctive quality that makes them sharper? If what I have read is correct, the Endura's and Delica's are solid ZDP-189 where as the Jess Horn & Calypso jr are laminated ZDP & 420J2. I wonder how the Kershaw's are built? I just read another thread about some fella who's Leek w/ZDP-189 was not sharp and rusted up after some water use. I have been EDCing my Endura 4 in my back pocket and noticed some tiny rust staining at the pivot area. As I stated above I hope to receive my Calypso jr monday or tuesday and then I will be able to see if the Lam's for some reason are sharper.
 
The laminated blades on the Caly Jr and Jess Horn are 2mm wide and different grinds. Even with the same initial sharpness, they will cut better than a stock D4 or E4. They're also easier to sharpen. I think the sharpeners shudder every time Sal starts talkin about the next wonder steel.
 
Just because the knife wasn't sharpened up to normal Spyderco standards in an assembly line, hand sharpening situation is no reason to say ZDP 189 isn't a good steel. While I've had mostly very sharp factory edges from Spyderco, I have had a few that were a bit off. They were a bit burred, but they would still shave some and cut paper, just not push cut newsprint over 3" from the point of hold like my sharpest factory Spydercos. I quickly quit worrying about initial sharpness once I learned to sharpen knives myself, however. I usually reprofile the knives I get to a thinner than stock angle and put my own edge on them very soon after I get them. Unless you plan on shipping off your knife every time you use it (most knives lose their scary sharpness very quickly upon use, even ZDP 189) you aren't going to be carrying around a scary sharp knife all the time anyway unless you learn to sharpen, so out of the box sharpness is hardly a good parameter to judge a steel on. Sharpenability, edge retention, and ability to hold acute angles without chipping or rolling are much more important in my mind if the knife is a user. As for laminated vs. solid for sharpness, it shouldn't make a difference. The thinner grinds of the laminated models will have greater cutting ability due to the thinner grinds of the knives, but the actual attainable sharpness shouldn't be any different assuming identical heat treats.

Mike
 
Ive been more than impressed with my Caly Jr.
It sliced a friends arm when he tried to shave with it with no pressure and he didn't even feel it until it got sweat in it and started to burn like a paper cut. I did the same thing on the back of my hand.
I can fillet news paper with it, not slice, fillet its thickness.
I love it. Though I only carry it every other week or so. Its kind of a lighter duty folder than I care to gamble with at work.
 
I usually reprofile the knives I get to a thinner than stock angle and put my own edge on them very soon after I get them.

Me too, and usually before I even try cutting anything with them. Most manufacturers probably wouldn't approve of my edge bevels, but I sure like them.
 
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