Disappointed with my NO

Buzz, The NO is my most often carried knife while backpacking and camping, but, I will also have a "slicer" with me. This may be a SAK Rucksak (backpacking) or a Buck 110 if merely camping. The lack of sharpness, or apparent sharpness, puzzles me is is likely an anomoly. The NO is a chopping, digging, prying, pounding stout hunk of INFI and its task profile doesn't really lend itself to the finer slicing tasks that present themselves frequently while camping.

The Satin Jack, and the 3/16th SJ in particular, sound like it will do your trick!
 
Buzzbait :

The first thing I noticed upon picking up the NO was the handle. I’m afraid that the e-handle is far too large to be comfortable in my hand.
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There is really nothing that can be done about this problem, different people have vastly different reactions to the same handle. I for example find the handle on the SHBM a little problematic, yet other people are really fond of it.

In regards to the edge geometry, you could quite easily grind an edge on a knife like the NO which would make it cut like an Opinel if you wanted, or very close to it anyway. However there are then going to be durablity problems with the harder work. This is something the user can experiment with. You bring down the edge until it is just at the durability level you need and thus it has the maximum functional cutting ability.

There was no arm shaving here, which I really don’t care about. But there was no paper cutting either.
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As others have said, there is no excuse for a poor NIB sharpening. However, this isn't an overly critical problem, just sharpen the knife and see how much of the problems you were seeing were due to the geometry and how much the sharpness played a part.

Or is there a Busse with the same cutting efficiency as a Marbles, but with the stronger integral handle?
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Yes, my SHBM, but I had to thin the edge out from the NIB state.

-Cliff
 
Interesting thread.

Hey, Jerry--

I've had a 1/4" Satin Jack LE, as well as a 3/16" ZTNO, both with zero edges, and my impression is that Busse's zero edge is not as thin an edge, and not as efficient a cutter on stiff material such as rope and cardboard, as the asymmetrical edge. I've gone back to using the combat grade, because when sharp, it will cut more efficiently than the zero edges I've tried from Busse. My experience may be limited, and I don't want to make it seem the zero edges won't cut--mine would shave hair readily. But in my experience, your zero edge does not seem as thin or as efficient a cutter as the standard AS edge.

Was my experience representative, and how would you compare the cutting efficiency of the two edge types in general?

-Will
 
I'm still a little hazy as to what the "Zero Edge" geometry actually is. Cliff mentioned a little bit about it, but not a whole lot. He described the ZTNO's geometry as "primary grind is high sabre-flat".

Does that mean that all Zero Edge knives sabre grinds? Pictures of the SJLE look more like a standard flat grind.

Do the Zero Edges have a convex, v-grind or assymetrical edge bevel?

Is the primary grind of the Zero Edge thinner at the edge bevel than on a combat grade?

Inquiring minds would love to see some accurate descriptions of Busse knives!!!! :)
 
Buzzbait :

Does that mean that all Zero Edge knives sabre grinds?
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The primary grind imposes no restraint on the edge geometry. The Killer "B"'s are high sabre-flat as are the Zero Tolerance series. The Combat and Basics are full flat. Some variants are full flat, some high sabre. The coated blades generally can't have zero edge bevels as you obviously can't blend the edge into the primary grind.

Do the Zero Edges have a convex, v-grind or assymetrical edge bevel?
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Zero edge just means that the edge bevel isn't distinct from the primary one, it is either at the same angle, or just blended in very well. For the Busse blades, I think they are all convex edged, a zero edge flat grind would be extremely weak, and thus for relatively light work like puukkos.

Is the primary grind of the Zero Edge thinner at the edge bevel than on a combat grade?
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I would have assumed so, however Will's comment seems to indicate otherwise, unless the curvature is steeper which would also lower cutting ability, even more so in fact. If you don't have a caliper, you can check the relative edge thickness and angle, by just pressing both edges into something soft that will hold the shape and visually comparing the cuts made. Or just do it hillbilly style and whack the blades into each other and see which one gets notched the worst.

-Cliff
 
I understand your dillema Buzzbait,and I too was a little apprehensive when first receiving a large handled knife.But you have to put a Busse into context of what it is and designed for. A Busse is made to be a REAL survival knife in this I mean to be able to do all and come back still functional.While able to do all easily it may not excel at any one task as say a filet would on a fish.When you mentioned the edge geometry and how you were cutting I immediately knew what kind of blades you were used to,the reason I knew is because I had the same prob at first.I always had knives like Randalls where you can not really discern the edge like you can on a busse.On those kind of knives you can lay the edge flatter when cutting,a Busse requires a steeper angle to be effective,Same when sharpening.I use to carry a sub hilt 7 inch fighter as my all around knife,hated it at first but when I got used to it it was great,same with the Busse.Bottom line and everyone here knows my POV on the SJ,it is in my opinion the best all around field,utility,skinnin,fightin,do everything knife.Get one and you wont be dissapointed.
 
Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Or just do it hillbilly style and whack the blades into each other and see which one gets notched the worst.
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You sir are scary!!!!! Now that's what I call a torture test!!!! :eek:

Thanks for the info though. It sounds like I'll like the "Zero Edge" SJLE alot. :D :)


Marsupial - Thanks for the great words. It sounds like you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about. I've never owned a Randall, and don't know much about them, but it sounds like they have grinds similar to a Marbles. I'm quite used to being able to do thin slicing by laying the blade edge flat to the substrate, while still retaining enough strength in the edge to do light chopping. That kind of edge allows for an almost infinite number of possible cutting angles. It may not cut them all perfectly, but it's a very versatile setup.
 
Buzzbait:

Sorry to hear that you were not thrilled with the NO, she was one of my favorite Busse knives :) It's ok though, sometimes it jsut takes a try or two before finding the perfect knife for someone. Don't worry, there IS a Busse out there with your name on it ;)
 
Nice to see someone can post they don't like a knife and not only not get flamed, but actually get constructive input! Keep up the good work guys. :)
 
I'd really like to thank everybody for their great input in this thread. You’ve all been wonderfully helpful. I’d also like to say “Thank You” to Jerry Busse, for his extraordinary patience, great advice, generosity, and excellent communication. He was right beside me the minute any reservations were shown about one of his products.

I sent the Natural Outlaw on its way back to Busse today, and will have an LE Satin Jack coming to me in a bit. I’m betting that the SJ will be just what I’ve been looking for in a knife. I’ll even have a chance to put it through its paces in a few weeks, during a short hiking trip into the Adirondacks. :D
 
I didn't like the handles on my SH E when I bought mine (and I sold a Basic 9 to get it, which I later regretted.). My hands are pretty small and the micarta slabs were very uncomfortable, and the edges of them seemed to cut into my hand.

Cliff is absolutely right when he says it is a problem that can't be helped. Evryones hands are different. Obviously, then, the handle on a production knife is going to fit everyone differently. Some may love it, and some may hate it. I disliked it and bought another Basic 9.

After the SH had been on the shelf for a few months, I debated whether to sell it or fix the problem. One day I just decided to take a rasp and a rat tail file (I used the rat tail to continue the pattern in the micarta arond the edges) and round the handles. I took quite a bit of material off, tried to keep it looking halfway decent, and made it fit my hand the best I could.

I have to say it is by far my favorite knife. In fact, at Knob Creek last spring I'm pretty sure I convinced a few people that didn't like the handles to reconsider and buy one, just by showing them my SH.

I'd post a picture of it, but it is at the Busse shop at the moment getting ready for spring.


To summerize: I filed down the damn handle 'till it fit my hand and its my favorite knife now.:D
 
Sorry to hear about the NO Buzz...:(

I love mine, it completes all of the cutting chores you mentioned with absolute ease (leather, paper etc) and was hair popping sharp when I got her. The handle is one of my favourite parts of the No as it fits MY hands to the extent that I do not even know it's there.

We are all different in our needs and I actually did think (by reading several of your other post's) that the NO was not going to be your knife. Maybe I should have went with instinct and pushed you away from it? Nah, best to make up your own mind.

I know the sorts of chores you want a knife to complete and I think that all the boys are right, the satin jack is the one you want. Let us know when you get it and what your thoughts are!

By the way, when I read the header of this topic, I feared for the worst upon entering. How WRONG was I! This Busse forum has to be the most honest and freindliest forum on BF and all crap aside, there does not seem to be any politics here....I find that I visit it more than any other forum these days. Keep up the good work mates - you are all great people.
 
That's great to hear that you got something worked out Buzzbait:)

Let us know when you get that SJLE:cool:
 
Sorry to hear that Buzzbait :(

I seem to echo gundy in that I was not certain the NO would be the knife you were looking for, but wasn't sure and didn't want to put a damper on things. I agree whole-heartedly that the SJ LE would be the perfect knife (or close :D) for you. Also, I'm hoping Busse will come out with some smaller, slimmer stock knives in the rumored new batch.

Let me tell you, when I first got my SH, I also was not too fond of the handle. It was not too large, but actually too small (thickness). That just goes to show you how hard (impossible) it is to make a handle that fits everyone perfectly. Jerry fixed it for me :D

About edge performance, I agree with Cliff. Either the shop or you can quite easily reprofile the edge to your liking. Also, Busse edges seem to vary a bit depending on the knife (hand edge-grinding and/or sharpening?).

I'm glad Jerry is taking care of you, though I must admit I'm not surprised :D
 
Quoted by Buzzbait:
I sent the Natural Outlaw on its way back to Busse today, and will have an LE Satin Jack coming to me in a bit. I’m betting that the SJ will be just what I’ve been looking for in a knife. I’ll even have a chance to put it through its paces in a few weeks, during a short hiking trip into the Adirondacks. :D [/B][/QUOTE]




Hey Buzz, Where u goin in the Dacks...?...I'm doing Mt. Marcy This weekend...I know it's not the ideal choice but i'm taking my Mr Mojo with me...It's my only Busse...Have fun when u go...

Peace!
 
LOL!!! You better bring your snowshoes along for that trip!!! :p Marcy doesn't like to lose her snow until May.

I'll be headed into the Santanoni Preserve; visiting the old great camp and Moose Lake, and then spending a couple days looking for trout around Newcomb Lake. It should be a good time. Then I'll be stopping around Newcomb for a day. My familiy has a camp there. I'll recharge my batteries, and search out some prime pieces of white cedar and birch for this summer's walking stick projects. :D
 
Good to see that there is more trout fisherman in here than just me Buzz!:D

Nothing like fresh mushrooms and a brace of nice pan size trout for a bush breaky.....mmmmmm.
 
Buzzbait - GLAD you got the Limited Edition Satin "Jacky" on order!
Once you see the edge, you'll know why it's hard to define... try measuring the TEB (Thickness at Edge Bevel) when you get it: Ha! It's impossible to capture; it's a rolled edge, which makes it slice better than my combat grades, without a real "shoulder" at least imho.
That may just be for some applications, however, as Will (see above) finds the CG better slicers for what he does...

DO give us a field report on those glorious days afield in the Dacks, won't you?

Trout fishing, & walking stick making; AHhhhh, sounds just like what the doctor ordered...
i can see it in my mind's eye now... :cool: Zzzzzzzzzz..........

Dreamin of the big outdoors, with a Busse in my hand...
Climber Clif


Variation on an above theme...

Intelligent
Nuclear
Fury
Intimidation.... :cool:
=
INFI

{The INFI Acronymer Strikes Again!}
 
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