Disappointing experience with VG-10 today - Am I expecting too much?

retzius

retzius

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Sep 17, 2009
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I decided to carry my Spyderco Dragonfly today to give it a bit of a workout. I broke down 1 double thick cardboard box, cut some twine, trimmed some very small branches off the Christmas tree we picked up, and opened a couple packages. I had the Dragonfly shaving sharp before I started the day with a 40 degree inclusive edge finished on the Spyderco UF rods. After the days cutting tasks, the edge still has some bite but will not shave and will not even grab fingernail in a couple spots.

TBH, I was a bit disappointed. The edge performance dropped off pretty dramatically after what I thought was a very light days work.

Am I expecting too much?
 
Perhaps you had bad luck and the cardboard had something really nasty in it.
Sometimes they have staple bits, grit of all sorts...cardboard can range from really easy on an edge all the way up to edge destruction in a hurry.
 
Just strop it up right on the cardboard, n edge will come back. Use a leather belt as well. I personally have a dedicated one with 4 sides made by stropman. Great product, guy &service as well. Good luck
 
stabman said:
Perhaps you had bad luck and the cardboard had something really nasty in it.
Sometimes they have staple bits, grit of all sorts...cardboard can range from really easy on an edge all the way up to edge destruction in a hurry.
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That's possible. I have used my Delica and Endura much harder than this without such a drop off in performance. Do you think the very thin edge on the Dragonfly is pushing the limit of VG-10?
 
Sounds typical to me. A very thin bladed VG10 knife is going to wear quicker, but will easily come back with a little touch up. A thicker VG10 knife, like a Fallkniven, with a convex edge, will stay sharper much longer, since there is more metal behind the edge.
 
jfk1110 said:
Just strop it up right on the cardboard, n edge will come back. Use a leather belt as well. I personally have a dedicated one with 4 sides made by stropman. Great product, guy &service as well. Good luck
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I did exactly that and the edge came back quickly. It makes me think the edge rolled pretty severely.
 
retzius said:
That's possible. I have used my Delica and Endura much harder than this without such a drop off in performance. Do you think the very thin edge on the Dragonfly is pushing the limit of VG-10?
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It might be pushing it, but the Urban has a pretty thin edge, and I used the hell out of it cutting cardboard for hours last time I moved.
I'd have to see the Dragonfly in person to see if it's thinner than the Urban or not; if it's about the same as the Urban though, then I'd really suspect plain bad luck in hitting something terrible.

Weird stuff happens; I remember chopping wood and hitting a stone that the tree had grown into itself; another time I was clearing a path through underbrush, and some tree/shrub thing had a piece of barbed wire in it (an old, old fence had existed in the area years ago, and so some plants had grown while it was up, and had pieces in them). Both times were hard on edges.
 
stonesell said:
Sounds typical to me. A very thin bladed VG10 knife is going to wear quicker, but will easily come back with a little touch up. A thicker VG10 knife, like a Fallkniven, with a convex edge, will stay sharper much longer, since there is more metal behind the edge.
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I have a F1 and have pushed it HARD without much problem. I think VG-10 might be on the limit for the thin Dragonfly unless you are going to do some VERY light work. A Dragonfly in S110v might be the answer :cool:
 
stabman said:
It might be pushing it, but the Urban has a pretty thin edge, and I used the hell out of it cutting cardboard for hours last time I moved.
I'd have to see the Dragonfly in person to see if it's thinner than the Urban or not; if it's about the same as the Urban though, then I'd really suspect plain bad luck in hitting something terrible.

Weird stuff happens; I remember chopping wood and hitting a stone that the tree had grown into itself; another time I was clearing a path through underbrush, and some tree/shrub thing had a piece of barbed wire in it (an old, old fence had existed in the area years ago, and so some plants had grown while it was up, and had pieces in them). Both times were hard on edges.
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I don't have calipers handily but the edge on my Dragonfly look like it's half as thick behind the edge as compared to my Delica. It's possible the box I was cutting was very abrasive. It was double thick and hard to bend. I will try to measure my Dragonfly, Delica, and Endura behind the edge tomorrow.
 
Have a ffg endure. no problems . I always believe if any steel.( I don't believe in super steel) Touch it up when needed . gary
 
retzius said:
I don't have calipers handily but the edge on my Dragonfly look like it's half as thick behind the edge as compared to my Delica. It's possible the box I was cutting was very abrasive. It was double thick and hard to bend. I will try to measure my Dragonfly, Delica, and Endura behind the edge tomorrow.
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I would greatly appreciate that.
I was debating getting a Dragonfly, so knowing what sort of duty it's good for beforehand would be valuably information. :thumbup:
My wife has a Delica, so I could compare it, the Urban, and the measurement you get with the Dragonfly to get a pretty good idea.
 
I am not crazy about VG10 for this reason. I've had this happen a lot with a Delica. The steel just is not hard enough for that kind of use, plus the Dragonfly isn't exactly what I'd call a work knnife. It's more of a small utility knife, the cutting edge is the same size as on the Ladybug. I will take ZDP over VG10 anyday.
 
RevDevil said:
I am not crazy about VG10 for this reason. I've had this happen a lot with a Delica. The steel just is not hard enough for that kind of use, plus the Dragonfly isn't exactly what I'd call a work knnife. It's more of a small utility knife, the cutting edge is the same size as on the Ladybug. I will take ZDP over VG10 anyday.
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I've been looking for an excuse to pick up a Dragonfly in ZDP :thumbup:

I think a comparison between the VG10 and ZDP Dragonfly would be a fun experiment. I was about to pick up a Centofante 3 but with such a thin edge (Very thin stock plus hollow grind) I am starting to think I would be disappointed in the performance.
 
All steels go dull. Dont expect a beaming light out of heaven no matter the steel.

I reground my VG10 blades to around 0.010 behind the edge. No issues with general use. Care at that thinness is important no matter the steel.

Claiming a thinner blade goes duller faster is BS. In all honesty you might just have had a slight burr.
 
VG-10 is my favorite Spyderco steel and a VG-10 Dragonfly is in my pocket everyday. Why?

VG-10 will take a super sharp edge. It will not hold that edge as long as some of the harder steels but it's pretty easy to get that edge back. It's not a steel for the person who doesn't know how to sharpen knives or a person who will not take the time to touch up their knife edges. ZDP-189 is available in the Dragonfly and it's a good choice for those folks. But--and it's a big "but"--it only takes a little time and effort to keep the VG-10 sharp but ZDP-189 will frustrate many due to the hardness of the steel and the time and effort needed to get it back to sharpness. Notice the OP replied that he got the edge on his Dragonfly back by merely stropping it on available materials. That's a big plus for VG-10.

I'm no steel expert but it has been my experience that when it comes to the newer super hard steels it's a tradeoff. A little time spent often or a lot of time spent less often. Personally, I actually like sharpening my knives as long as it's not drudgery. Super hard steels can make it drudgery. VG-10 and other steels like 154CM and 440C or even S30V are pretty much fun for me to work with and they perform well for my uses.
 
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Sometimes what feelsike a screaming sharp edge may also be a wire edge that can fall apart quickly. Like others have said, strop it or hone it. I'm sure the edge is still there just new to get that thin micro wire knocked off. That's why I alway strop a knife after sharping and always strop a brand new knife, to get to the "real" edge. If that makes sense.
 
Card board can be nasty. I have blunted many a folder doing exactly that. It lays around on the ground, collecting dirt particles and whatever else is on the ground. VG10 is an excellent all around stainless steel.
 
If it didn't chip it is good to go. A couple swipes on a ceramic rod or passes on a strop and it should be fine.

Shaving sharp edges can deteriorate quickly, depending on the abrasion resistance of the steel and heat treat.

If the edge is not damaged and will still cut fingernails, rope, paper, cardboard, and other media, I would say it is performing well.

IMHO 01 and S30V are the worst in this regard in terms of losing that shaving edge.

M390, M4, and AEB-L have kept the fine edge the longest in my own use.

I have also been very impressed with CPM D2.

Cardboard is very hard on an edge at the micro level.

VG-10 is a good steel.
 
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I would say you are expecting too much for the work performed.

VG-10 from Spyderco is a littler softer in my experience and unless the edge is very thin it tends to act a lot like AUS8. I have a few Endura's and have reground them all because of poor edge performance. Most recently I reground my FFG Endura 4 because it was getting thick behind the sharpened edge after a lot of use and sharpening. I was having trouble sharpening this blade and maintaining a good cutting edge to the point I stopped carrying it.

After the regrind it was a night and day difference as it is with most steels. The edge performance is better and it can be taken to higher levels of refinement without issue. Basically, what I'm try to say is that you probably need some blade thinning. I know the Dragonfly is typically a little thicker behind the bevel, my mom has one and I had to eventually regrind hers for the same reasons.

Blade geometry plays a huge role in the edge performance and when the blade is ground thin the edge will perform many times better. It's a major part of blade maintenance but completely neglected in current knife culture.
 
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