DIY HT Kiln pre build questions

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Jun 30, 2004
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Hey gang,

I'm looking into building a HT kiln.. Going for something similar in size to the paragon 18D. Planning on 120v on 20A circuit. Looks like the element I have my eye on will draw 13A and run 1550W. I've figured out a brick layout and the internal dimensions will be 4.25x5.5x19". Plan on using the Thermal Ceramics K-23 Soft Bricks.

Will the 2.5" brick thickness be a sufficient insulator or to I need another layer or some additional thickness??

I had an alternate design where I used the bricks on edge creating a 4.5" wall thickness however it doubled my brick count and starts to get pricey.

Thanks,
Jerid
 
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I used the k23 3" bricks. As the oven heats up nicely, the outter shell of mine which is 3/16" stainless still gets extremely hot. I'm sure 2.5" would work fine but, the 3" aren't that much more expensive so.
 
Make the brick liner with some sort of simple frame to hold that together (angle iron works well). Then wrap it in kaowool or similar insulation. Put the outer shell around that. I feel that most HT ovens get far too hot on the outside.

Take a serious look at building it to run on 220VAC and have a larger wattage of 1800-2000W. No one regrets faster heat up and more stable high temperatures, but everyone regrets when it is wimpier than you want.
 
Also, remember to stagger your seams and notch your top bricks 1/4" so they sit down between the side bricks.
 
I used the k23 3" bricks. As the oven heats up nicely, the outter shell of mine which is 3/16" stainless still gets extremely hot. I'm sure 2.5" would work fine but, the 3" aren't that much more expensive so.

I'm mostly concerned about the inside being able to retain heat. There doesn't seem to be many options for brick near me... I'll keep looking and call some friends to see what they know but it looks like I'm limited to 9" x 4.5" x 2.5" for now.

Make the brick liner with some sort of simple frame to hold that together (angle iron works well). Then wrap it in kaowool or similar insulation. Put the outer shell around that. I feel that most HT ovens get far too hot on the outside. Take a serious look at building it to run on 220VAC and have a larger wattage of 1800-2000W. No one regrets faster heat up and more stable high temperatures, but everyone regrets when it is wimpier than you want.

I'm liking the kaowool idea.. I've seen some try to put the additional insulation inside the primary brick frame which doesn't seem to work well, Looks like you want a nice rigid, well fit, frame to hold the bricks and then line with the softer insulation outside that like you suggest. I'll look into this..

I'll look into the 220v option Stacy. I dont have 220v in my shop/garage as I stole the circuit to power a hot tub which I never use anymore.. Been considering getting rid of the hot tub and getting my 220v back in my garage. I don't use a 220 dryer so the line could be used for shop equipment. P.S. Free working hot tub for anyone what wants to come get it :-)

Also, remember to stagger your seams and notch your top bricks 1/4" so they sit down between the side bricks.

Planning to create interlocking seams on all the joints.
 
Two excellent suggestions are the 220v you won't regret this. It will cut down on the time it takes for your furnace to come up to temp sooner you get the blanks in the sooner they come out....time is money right??!! The other suggestion is to wrap the exterior with blanket Kaowol. Keep the heat in the furnace not radiating out as Stacy pointed out they can give off a tremendous amount of heat not to mention an accident of touching it when HOT!!!

I share a 220v circuit with my Mill and Furnace so what I did was get some 12ga wire and a plug to make up a cord that is hard wired to my furnace which is on a cart so I can move it close to the 220v outlet....Unplug the Mill and Plug in the Furnace Cheaper than an electrician to add another 220v outlet.
 
I also built mine with 3" brick, and I'd generally recommend sticking with what has worked well in the past.

I was feeling downright lazy (and cheap) when I built a 42" long oven for a guy who makes the occasional sword. I used cheap no-name (3") IFBs that were much denser than the ones I normally use, and therefore were much poorer insulators: probably significantly worse than 2 1/2" K23s. I used them for the floor and walls without cutting any down. I just routed the element grooves in the walls.

For the roof, I needed to span a 9" gap so used a layer of 1" Ceramic Fiber board with 3" Calcium Silicate board backing it up. I was intending to use 2" Calcium Silicate, but the 3" was free.



It all worked pretty well while the elements lasted. Being for swords, it was only used on Carbon steels and didn't see the sorts of temperatures used for stainless, though it got test-run to 1100 degC (2012 degF) before it went out.

My biggest concern with 2 1/2" bricks would be the skin temperature on the outside wall where the element grooves are on the inside, though I don't actually think it will be a problem. If you can find it, an inch of Calcium Silicate board would probably work well on the outside.

I tend to use a frame built from 1" angle to hold the IFBs together and I also pin them with welding rod if it looks like they need it. I don't skin the outside of my ovens in sheetmetal.



The other HT ovens I've built manage stainless steel temperatures pretty well. 1205 degC is 2201 degF and is pretty much the limit for this 23-inch oven on the 3 kW available from our 13 Amp-fused, 230V domestic power outlets in the UK. It took just about 90 minutes to reach that temperature, though I opened it a couple of times on the way up for photos (the 42-inch sword oven used a separate supply for each of the 2 elements).





Although the surface temperature gets pretty high (I've measured 135 degC, 275 degF with an IR thermometer after a couple of hours running at 1177 degC, 2150 degF), the IFBs are such poor conductors that short-term contact with them does not cause damage to the skin: It works a lot like the silicone protectors clumsy cooks like me put on the front of their oven shelves to save themselves from burns. The Calcium Silicate is much the same as the IFB in this regard.

Putting a highly-conductive metal skin on the outside of an HT oven just seems like a way of making it more dangerous to me, unless there is a decent air gap between the surface of the insulation and the metal skin.

I did a lot of number-crunching when I built my first HT oven and adding insulation to reduce surface temperatures didn't actually stack up very well at all. If you can afford the space to get another inch of insulation all round, the numbers seem to show you are better off going for an air gap instead.

We are on 230V domestic mains here, so 110V was never an issue for me. I'd certainly recommend going for the higher Voltage if you can. Think in terms of safety and use a Residual Current Circuit Breaker (perhaps you'd call it a GFCI over there?) if you do.
 
Anyone got a main switch recommendation for this 220v unit? I'm not finding anything I like online that can handle the higher amps. I plan on using a paragon heat element for the 24" oven and they claim that unit runs at 11 amps.

I'd prefer an illuminated push button.


Update: After doing some more research, it seems that I could use a contactor to handle the high amps and control it with a remote switch.. say a 110v switch.. As I understand it, there is little/no load on the switch and the contactor allows the 220v and high amps pass through when switch is activated.

Confirmation/guidance appreciated..

Cheers,
Jerid
 
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Most folks use an SSR instead of a contactor today. As you said, the actual switch only handles a few milliamps. A 40 amp SSR and a good heat sink will cost $50 or less. The PID in the controller runs the SSR. The MAIN power switch for the oven should be a double pole single throw industrial switch rated at 20 amps/240VAC. Your local HD or Lowes probably has them. Just install an indicator light in one leg to indicate "power on".
 
The MAIN power switch for the oven should be a double pole single throw industrial switch rated at 20 amps/240VAC. Your local HD or Lowes probably has them.

Stacy,
This is what I'm having trouble sourcing. Seems like it would be simple enough to find but no luck so far.

Based on what I've seen in my research, a contactor seems to commonly be used for this type of main power switching.

I do plan to use SSRs for the heat element.
 
My oven is very similar dimensions with a cavity around 4.5"x4.5"x15". If I were to do it again I would go bigger. It handles blades just fine, but once in a while I want to clamp a blade flat during tempering and it gets crowded in there.

I wrapped mine with sheet metal fastened together with pop rivets. I'm not unhappy with that. At 1450 F it's hot enough you don't put your fingers on it for long but not that hot.

Mine takes about 75 minutes to get up to 1450 F. Peak current draw is about 15 amps at 110 VAC. That's as good as I could do on a 20 amp circuit. It's fine for my use but if you're doing blades frequently 220 is obviously something desirable.
 
I found a number of items at Auberins they carry SSR and switches....I picked 2 one for the Main Power and one for just the coil. They were reasonable and I also picked up 2 lights one RED for the Coil and one Green for the main power. I can tell at a glance when the system is on and if there is power to the coil.
 
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! I think I understand now. Bear with me. Learning on the fly can be rough. :-)

Because each line is 110v... I don't need each pole to carry 220v 11A.

Thanks guys
 
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